OPINION
• MUSTAFA AKYOL
Thursday, July 29 2010 19:55 GMT+2
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Will Turkey’s caste system survive?

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The recent verdict by the Council of State, which annuled the decision of the Higher Education Council to give equal ‘coefficients’ to all high school graduates, is not too different from saying that blacks can not sit together with whites on a bus, because they have different ‘legal statuses’ – a difference which comes from nothing but a belief in inequality

Orhan Pamuk, Turkey’s Nobel laureate in literature, has an interesting passage in his cherished book, “Istanbul.” He recalls his childhood days in the ’50s, and tells how the urban upper class he grew up within looked down upon their practicing co-religionists. “The nation-state,” he writes, “belonged more to us than to the religious poor.”

Pamuk is right. The Turkish nation-state, born in the mid-20s as a republic without democracy, belonged mainly to the secular elite. In the Ottoman times, in fact, the elite were much more diverse and included religious conservatives as well. But the latter were systematically purged from the “center” of society in the era of High Kemalism (1925-1950). In the “university reform” of 1933, for example, hundreds of professors who disagreed with the Kemalist ideology lost their jobs. The state was creating the elite in its own image, and those who rejected being “re-created,” a term used by Mustafa Kemal, were being sidelined.

The children of the damned

That’s why, in the upcoming decades, religiosity would become a hallmark of the lower classes in Turkey. Those who go to the mosque five times a day would be deemed as a “köylü,” or a peasant.

Yet things have changed a lot since the early ’80s. As Turkey engaged in democracy and free market capitalism, the “religious poor” have found ways into the center of the society. Today not all of them are poor anymore, and thus they can create their own media empires, build their non-governmental organizations, or send their kids to universities in America. Moreover, the party they overwhelmingly vote for, the AKP, has been in power since 2002.

But the Kemalists are no idiots. Over the years, they have refined the caste system that they enacted during the genesis of the nation-state. They refined their tactics, too. Direct military coups are not feasible anymore, so they now use the judiciary as their main instrument.

The recent decision by the Council of State to annul the decision of the Higher Education Board, or YÖK, to give equal “coefficients” to all high school graduates is a perfect example.

Now, if you haven’t been following the news closely, this might sound like Chinese to you. So, just in case, let me give a brief summary.

The whole controversy here is about whether the graduates of the imam hatip schools have the right to go to universities other then theology faculties. These are official high schools created for raising “imams and preachers.” Their curriculum is not actually too different from normal high schools. Their students, too, learn history, geography or math. They, too, wear jackets and ties. They just have additional classes for Koran and hadith studies.

In other words, these schools are not, by any means, anything like those radical Pakistani madrasas in which medieval-minded men teach about the niceties of jihad. Studies have actually shown that imam hatip graduates are fairly modern and quite diverse.

Yet for the Kemalists, even moderate religion is a big danger. That’s why they have always resented imam hatips and tried to keep them as limited as possible. They have argued that these are only vocational schools to raise mosque personnel, and the Turkish state doesn’t need too many of them.

But the truth is that these schools appeal to the needs of not the state, but the society. Turkey is a bizarre country in which any sort of private religious education is strictly banned. Therefore, the official imam hatips, opened by center-right governments from the 1950s onwards, emerged as the only possible form of religious education. Most conservative families send their children to these schools not to see them as imams, but engineers, doctors or civil servants “who also know a bit about their religion.” Hence, most graduates of these schools, including celebrities such as Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, study not theology but secular sciences in college.

Inequality for inequality

This “religious infiltration” to universities is a serious threat to the Kemalist caste system. Thus the latter tried to restore itself during the “soft coup” of 1997. The powerful generals of the time not only shortened imam hatip schools from six to three years, but, more importantly, they practically disallowed their graduates to go to faculties other than theology. The trick was to lower their “coefficients,” the number that is multiplied by their high school grades and then added to their university entry exam scores. The result was that an imam hatip graduate had to score much higher than a normal school graduate to get the same result.

About two weeks ago, the YÖK decided to give an “equal coefficient” to all students. But the Council of State rushed to annul the decision. “These students can’t be equal,” the staunchly Kemalist judges tautologically argued, “because they have different legal statuses.”

This is not too different from saying that blacks can not sit together with whites on a bus, because they have different “legal statuses” – a difference that comes from nothing but a belief in inequality.

So, this is where we are at right now vis-à-vis the caste system in Kemalist Turkey. As for the question in my headline – whether this will survive – my answer is no. It won’t survive.

Yet, at least for a while, it will continue to ruin the lives of those citizens that it shamelessly discriminates against.


 

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READER COMMENTS

Guest - Vural Korkmaz
2010-01-09 18:42:17
  Mustafa Akyol is, for sure, an anti-Ataturk and anti-Turkish hate monger.
 

Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay
2009-12-16 18:52:03
  Sorry Dr P the accusations levelled against the AKP is not true. The AKP has no interest in silencing media in Turkey. The fine levied against the Dogan media has nothing to do with freedom of expression but a tax matter. The reason for a hefty fine against Dogan Group is to encourage the growth of domestic companies to become globally competitive, the laws allow for tax credits to companies that grow through mergers and acquisitions-- in fact, any profits that result from M&A activity are not taxed (Article 20.3 of the tax code). The Dogan Group has tried to exploit this provision in the code by engaging in a long series of M&A activity entirely within the group itself, among the 28 companies that make up the group, in which only the shares but not the control of the companies changed hands, clearly violating the intent of the law. In other words, it appears that some clever tax attorney (I bet they employ quite a few of them) said "Hey, if we sell our companies to each other, we can take a 100% deduction on our paper profits," but they got caught! That's the way it goes sometimes. So the bottom line is there appears to be a clear attempt to defraud the government and the Turkish people through these paper shuffling maneuvers. The murders in Malatya are a part of a larger plot of Ergenekon to cause social unrest by targeting non-Muslims and therefore getting the Army involved. So your accusation that the AKP targets non-Muslims is totally untrue. The recognized ethnic minorities in Turkey Jews, Armenians and Greeks mostly voted for the AKP than the CHP. The AKP is trying to resolve the problem of training Christian clergy within the Turkish Secular law system. Under the Turkish system religious education needs to be under government supervision. I don’t support this type of Secularism but this is how it is in Turkey unfortunately. The government offered Istanbul University Theological faculty to supervise it but was rejected by the Greek Archbishop. Negotiations are still continuing to resolve this issue. I think it is incorrect to assume that non-Muslims are not involved in the Judiciary and Military. I know that one particular rapporteur is actually Atheist rather than a Muslim. Islamic practice is not looked highly upon within Military ranks and any Generals displaying any form of Islamic sympathy is always removed. I also disagree with you in regards to Jew bashing. If anyone is sensitive to anti-semitism it is the AKP constituency. Many of its constituents are victims of religious discrimination and are more sympathetic to Jews than any other group. The AKP is a force for Secularism, in which it has moderated the Turkish version and moving towards a full Secular Democratic system. Imperfections still exist but they will be removed within time.
 

Guest - dr p
2009-12-15 14:25:22
  @omar: the akp silences nonsubservient media, stole land from mor gabriel, has not demanded justice for the malatya murders, does not allow christians to train their clergy at home, keeps nonmuslims out of the judiciary and military officers' corps, and is trying to reclaim the lost art of jew-baiting as an election strategy. these thing the akp does whilst catering to islamist segments of the population, yet you call the akp a force for secularism. am i missing something here? do tell.
 

Guest - Omar
2009-12-14 19:29:41
  Secularism means that no religion should be favored over another. Now Atheism has all the makings of a religion, only lacking a god. The Kemalist system, in fact, is not a secular one but a fundamentalist Atheist system, not that different from its Iranian counterpart. In Turkey the force for secularism and democracy is not the Kemalists, but AKP.
 

Guest - dr p
2009-12-14 17:32:49
  @mr doganay: luther's quip was one against the assumption that just because someone is "one of us" he will be a fit ruler; i used it in the context of the current questions of religious bias rather than which particular turk is wise or no. if i had to vote between a fiscally responsible muslim who was a strict constitutionalist and a member of my own church who was a tax-and-spend type, i would choose the former without hesitation. per the article, the fear seems to oscillate between an alleged militant islamification-cum-sharia and loss of privileged elite status for militant kemalists. as to the latter, too bad for them; per the former, very bad for all. your thoughts?
 

Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay
2009-12-14 15:48:00
  Dr P yes we finally agree on something, and yes enforced religion is also wrong and toxic. But I would like to make a more sweeping statement by saying that force is always toxic and has never succeeded. Are you sure you would rather be ruled by a wise Turk than a foolish Christian? Are you referring to past Turkish leaders compared to US leaders? If you refer to Turgut Ozal, Aydin Menderes and Tayyip Erdogan as wise Turks I would agree with you. However if you list Ismet Inonu, Bulent Ecevit, Suleyman Demirel and Deniz Baykal as your wise leaders I would say no on any given day. Even though I am a proud Turk, I would have to say the US system is better than the Turkish one. The US system even though alienated African Americans for a long time it is however a stable system where once leaders are deposed in elections they retire comfortably and do not undermine their sitting Presidents. In Turkey however, popular leaders are removed from power by force, jailed and killed or died during their politcal career. So yeah excuse me if I'm a little uneasy with the Turkish political and judicial system. With respect to Imam-Hatips and religious education, I feel that there needs to be a complete overhaul of the system as I mentioned in my previous comment. Imam-Hatips are not dangerous schools as some Secularists think, but rather are government sanctioned religious schools. My question to all those people who oppose headscarves in Schools, do you believe that everyone has a right to education? Do you expect girls who do wear a headscarf to drop dead and shut themselves out of society? If headscarfs as you claim don't allow for woment to be involved in society isn't the fact that they enrol in schools for an education actually disproves your theory about them? Don't you think that headscarved women receiving an education is a good think? Don't you think that if 65 % of Turkish women wear a headscarf, and you ask them to take it off to go to school you will actually alienate them and hence they will lose motivation to go to schools? Don't you think that the headscarf restriction is actually a hindrance to Turkish society?
 

Guest - dr p
2009-12-14 14:48:04
  how do the imam hatip grads actually score on the entrance exams; ie if the coefficent was removed, would their numbers in universities dramatically increase? if not, why the negative coefficient? if so, why not clean up the educations system rather than merely pernalise excellence? the article really dodged this key issue, which is akin to what home- and church-schoolers faced in the us - that is, until they demonstrated their quality by outperforming their government-schooled peers? what is the real situation in turkey? the comparison with racial segregation is tripe, for, as pointed out below, one cannot choose one's genes. @mr doganay: mirabile dictu! we agree on something; ie the toxin of atheism on society when implemented as policy. however, as our atheitst colleagues point out, enforced religion which penalises dissidents is an equally toxic "ism;" kennedy could become president of a largely protestant nation because there was no sharia-like ban on a catholic (or jew, or atheist, etc) holding public office, and we have made at least some progress since hoover and smith.as luther himself said: i'd rather be ruled by a wise turk than by a foolish christian.
 

Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay
2009-12-14 11:50:01
  Downtown Chris maybe you would like to live in the middleages where witchcraft cures your illness. Maybe you would like to save your money under your pillow and see it lose its value over time. Many people die of gunshot wounds in the US and guns are not to blame but people. Oh Really? Whereas whenever a Muslim commits a crime it is the Islam that is to blame? Oh Really? Hmmm seems to me a bit of contradiction goes a long way and common sense is out the window. Maybe you would like to live in USSR in the 1930's where Genetics was ignored because it was discovered in a Monastary and lead to thousands of deaths Chris. Atheis my dear downtown Chris is a dagger in the heart of freedom and humanity not religion. Religion has formed the basis of every society in the world. Secularism comes from the Chrisitian belief system downtown Chris not by Atheism. Atheism is a loss of hope and darkness. Darkness leads people astray and is responsible form many acts of criminal behavour. Downtown Chris use your own intellect instead of trying to edit my comments.
 

Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay
2009-12-13 21:37:57
  Atheist Turk what’s the matter did I hurt your pride? I do not make up facts, I just mention them. if Atheism is a lack of religion, why has it turned into a religion? If you’re talking of Atheists in Turkey as liberals well I completely disagree with you. The atheists in Turkey are aggressive people who have no tolerance whatsoever to religious expression. The site of a headscarf disturbs them very much. They cannot challenge the women to take off their headscarfs intellectually so what do they do? They introduce laws that ban the wearing of headscarfs. How convenient? What a bunch of miserable human beings you are Atheist Turk. Some Muslim countries are backward but that is due to poverty not religion. Up until 2002 Turkey was a backward third world country. It took a religious PM to get the country moving again and increase its wealth to almost 13000 USD from 2500. In fact the wealthiest countries in the world are actually Islamic countries in the Gulf States such as Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait and Brunei. Saudi Arabia has 1 trillion dollars in US banks alone. If you’re interested in more facts Atheist Turk, the Muslims in America are a lot wealthier per capita compared to Turkey. Your contradiction doesn’t know any boundaries. It is Atheism that condones racism and slavery nothing else. It was actually a practicing Catholic President that improved the plight of African Americans. They were not Atheists. Sorry Atheist Turk but I am going to always rain in on your parade and you can never rain on my parade. I look forward to more Atheist challenges from you.
 

Guest - downtown
2009-12-13 20:29:57
  Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay (2009-12-12 19:40:34) : "Atheist Turk religion is very important. It is RELIGION that is dangerous and a dagger in the heart of freedom and enlightenment. Human civilizations have a lot to thank PERSIAN CULTURE for. MIDDLE EASTERN CULTURE has brought Modern medicine to the world such as anaesthetics to treat severe pain, to autopsies to find out the cause of death. Geometry and Algebra are two great streams that have increased a wealth of human knowledge and has subsequently allowed humans to develop. The banking system and entrepreneurship has made humans more wealthier than before. The development of waterways, dams and irrigation systems. RELIGION however has been a blight on the human race. It has contributed to extraordinary deaths on a large scale. Nazism, Communism, Racism and Discrimination examples of by product of RELIGION. Modern concept such as Secularism is AN ATHEIST concept not an RELIGIOUS one. Atheist Turk, RELIGION has no role in Education. The plight of African Americans is due to RELIGION Atheist Turk, not ATHEISIM, seems like you need a reality check. " Mr Goksel Doganay, I had to make a few simple changes to your comments... hope you enjoy :) Chris
 

Guest - dzfr
2009-12-13 20:09:28
  cool man! thanks
 

Guest - KLH
2009-12-13 19:34:36
  I want to thank Mustafa Akyol for his interesting commentary on the recent discriminatory tactics against the graduates of imam hatib schools. I am an American anthropologist studying the very people he describes, who struggle to send their children to public schools--both secular high schools and imam hatib schools--with rural backgrounds. These families have overcome many obstacles and their children are striving to improve their circumstances, as are my American students, many of whom are African-American and recent immigrants, who have few options and opportunities. I, as well as my institution in the States, make every effort to help the disadvantaged and offer them chances to improve their circumstances without prejudice or offense. I am shocked at the expressions of intolerance and hatred I have read here. Whether one refers to the gap between the rural poor and the urban poor as one of class or caste is certainly debatable, but there is no question that young people in Turkey, regardless of the type of public schooling they receive, have to overcome almost insurmountable challenges. I sincerely feel for the students who work to pass the OSS exams, who spend years attending mostly useless (from my view) dershane to try to get a better outcome to the exams, who attend poorly staffed secular high schools, who attend mediocre high schools of all varieties, whose families cannot understand their quest for a different life via education, as well as those from devout backgrounds whose families regard Islamic training as part and parcel of knowledge and understanding. Surely, opening opportunities would be a better policy than harming students who have few options and little agency (that is the power to make independent choices) in shaping their own futures. The fact that so many girls attend imam hatib schools should not be dismissed lightly. The Diyanet in fact does take women as vaize if not imam and many female graduates of imam hatib schools might have a chance for further education in secular universities if they can prove to their families that they have requisite knowledge in Islamic subjects. The fact is that there are alternative forums of Islamic training in Turkey and many rural and urban poor girls are sent to these institutions because their families will not allow them to go to imam hatib schools--that is, these institutions do offer some chance at improvement if not absolute liberation.
 

Guest - leo
2009-12-13 18:32:08
  I would like to remind to all who commented on this article that Mr. Aykol is a cleaver Islamist, ideologue, Who Pretend to be a fair minded center right democrat. Unlike Erdogan he is an intellectual who can twist/frame an issue under the guise liberal democracy. He is no better or worst than left wing intellectual ideologues.
 

Guest - AtheistTurk
2009-12-13 16:36:59
  @Mr Goksel Doganay - "Nazism, Communism, Racism and Discrimination examples of by product of Atheism". Bleating rubbish as usual, aren't you. Those are entirely separate and extreme ideologies. Atheism is just a lack of religion, nothing else. Is that really so difficult to comprehend? Most atheists are liberals anyway, sorry to rain on your parade. And Muslims may have done good things in the past, but look at how backward Islamic countries are today. I actually can't believe you said that the plight of African Americans is due to atheism! Atheism had absolutely nothing to do with racism in the South. The White oppressers were all fundamentalist Christians. Their oppression was due to racism and slavery, nothing else.
 

Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay
2009-12-13 15:57:41
  Sorry Jon and Burbaco but Mr Akyol is on the money. High School including Imam-Hatip's are introductory courses for University. However the problem not only lies within these types of schools but the whole education system of Turkey. The education standards are very low. I used to have friends and relatives who went through the Turkish system and they used to boast about how modern and high class the Turkish education system is. However on closer examination I found out this so called education system is very low and fails many Turkish students. Successful students who give advice on future students on University exams is eye turning. They advise students to study 24 hours a day, don't take breaks, only for breaks and food, and it sounds like more of an ordeal than advice. As if High School isn't enough, students are then asked to go to dershane's and study there. The students are examinable on topics which the teacher hasn't covered. The system relies on students to demonstrate their memory rather than their knowledge. Sample questions of exam questions are posted in the Newspapers and students spend their time studying for that. In conclusion the Turkish education system needs a radical overhaul in order to harness their future. With respect to religious schools and where they sit, Imam-Hatips are no different to religious schools in Western countries. They teach the basics of Science and Mathematics. Students wishing to enter into courses such as Medicine, Engineering and Science learn their trade at University not at High School. So to accuse Imam-Hatips of not meeting the required standards are wrong. Parents send their kids to these schools to learn Islam in conjunction with a secular education. These schools do not equip students to be theologians or Imam’s. Ironically these schools flourished not during the 60’s but during the 80’s when the Generals who performed a coup decided to counter Communism and Socialist ideas. These schools are under state control which again is contrary to Secularism. Having said that, these Imam-Hatips are not schools that promote violence or radicalism. These schools counteract violence and radicalism. Many so called secular people raise the prospect of living under a fanatical Islamic state, when in fact they have no idea what Islam is. My advice to those people is if you are fearful of living under a Islamic regime, is it better to educate people about Islam or ban it completely and let radical people teach an austere version of Islam? You cannot have it both ways. 85 years of Republican history shows that you cannot counteract a moderate version of Islam by banning the learning centres of Islam. Expecting people to be discreet with their religious practices is totally wrong and contrary to Secularism and Democracy.
 

Guest - Zonkey
2009-12-13 14:21:31
  Dear Mr Goksel Doganay. I can no longer watch comedy on TV because nothing gives me a bigger laugh than reading your contributions to articles where there is a religious theme. Do you do stand-up as well ? - let me know as I'll be sure to get tickets for the front row for my friends and family too ! Peace.
 

Guest - Brian
2009-12-13 13:19:25
  If I go to a school with the intention of training to be a priest, or imam, does that mean i have had the educational foundation to become an engineer or an architect or a finance manager? The answer is no. Religion has it's place in religious schools or in higher religious learning institutions. NOT in places of science and fact. In a democratic state religion is separate from education. You can be religious and still go to a normal school! These type of religious school whether they are Islamic or, as in the USA, Christian are nothing more than indoctrinators and brain washers. If parents want their children to enter the secular work arena, well they should send them to a secular school! Religion can be taught and practiced outside of the education system. And also Mustafa,.... there is absolutely no comparison between the racial divide and this issue. I don't think you thought this article out very well, and you confuse your own idealogical ideas with the truth.
 

Guest - milan
2009-12-13 12:49:02
  Sue- someone holding a gun over your head to read Mustafa? or indeed may be someone is forcing you to write comments? we can all guess. Jon- if these kids from imam hatips dont have the credentials to get into the university, what's the fuss anyhow, they will be eliminated at the exam? What good does this decision serve except for generating more bitterness and division within the country? it is easier than creating alternatives and changing the education system though right? Again, we are going to bandaids instead of proper treatment of the wound. The ugliness is closed off for awhile, but it is not healed.
 

Guest - Sue
2009-12-13 11:44:02
  ahahahahahahaha! Who is this guy? Is he a joke? Has he ever read a history book? I reject the basis of his argument. False logic is a staple of poor minds. Laughable column at best but frankly it is just ignorant and idiotic. What a waste of space. Please tell me Turkey has better thinkers than this ranting, low intellect. What Akyol needs to be doing instead of writing this drivel is getting an education in history followed by a high dose of logic. Then I can start reading what he has to say.
 

Guest - Sean Jeating
2009-12-13 03:11:42
  There'd be much to write, however as Karl Popper once stated: "To attack a man for talking nonsense is like finding your mortal enemy drowning in a swamp and jumping in after him with a knife."
 

Guest - Daniel Chipenda
2009-12-12 22:10:30
  Mr Vilgot have you not heard of freedom of choice?You are free to not to shake hands with everyone you meet, and select your own seat at a concert hall.This is called democracy,something you and your likes will never understand in a million years!!!Coming back to the issue under question,call it what you want, the recent verdict by the Council of State is nothing but an Academic Apartheid!A rose by any other name, as Shakespeare would say. There is no way you and the legal-brains can water down Apartheid by calling it Secularism! Daniel Chipenda An African from Hacettepe
 

Guest - jon
2009-12-12 21:00:55
  I concur fully with Burbaco, Akyol is being intellectually dishonest here, he is only telling a small part of his story meant for the uninformed who know little of the subject, he is either aiming for the misinformed foreigner and making a spurious comparison to the 1950's US with no merit, or the badly educated "koylu's" of which he speaks. Imam-Hatip graduates generally do NOT have anywhere near the academic credentials to attend most universities, 90% of what they learn may be suitable for a university course in Islamic theology, but precious little else. Quite frankly one should also allow those who attend car repair school to have the same co-efficients to attend university as Imam-Hatip graduates as they often may be more qualified to attend Turkish universities. Truth be told, the standards of these schools is ofetn low, or non-existant, and while a certain "celebrity" may have risen up from these ranks, most graduates are prayer reciting automatons who are better suited to the 19th century rather than the 21st. Parents who send their kids to such schools are either 1) Wishing their children to be Imams. 2) Parents from non-existant educational backgrounds who know no better, 3) Parents of quite frankly low performing children who cannot get their children into better schools. 4) Politically/religious afflicted people who want their girl children to be raised in a certain way. The only possible comparison that Akyol could have made with racial politics in the US would be "Affirmative Action" or the South African equivalent of "Empowerment" as he is asking for students who are clearly less qualified, with inferior grades, knowledge and education to be given preferential access when they in reality do not deserve it, except of course that there is no racial or ethnic group existing in this example, just the mentality of certain people.
 

Guest - will
2009-12-12 20:12:31
  Whatever you the commentators say the result never changes.. Unfortunatelly Kemalist Romantic nation-state with only western perspectives could not satisfy the majorty of its own people. We should not forget something: This romantism made our own generations even unable to understand its great hero's own sayings, and also anthem's words. When it comes to advertise Turkey like a bridge between Asia and Europe everybody is tend to do so. But when it comes to evaluate what has been going on in Turkey those pretend to be blind and deaf. There is no exit from reality. Turkey will definetely be stronger with its religious and ethnic aspects. By trying to make them disappear they tranform to be much more stronger. Please see: Prime Minister Erdogan and President Gul.
 

Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay
2009-12-12 19:40:34
  Atheist Turk religion is very important. It is Atheism that is dangerous and a dagger in the heart of freedom and enlightenment. Human civilizations have a lot to thank Islam for. Islam the religion of peace has brought Modern medicine to the world such as anaesthetics to treat severe pain, to autopsies to find out the cause of death. Geometry and Algebra are two great streams that have increased a wealth of human knowledge and has subsequently allowed humans to develop. The banking system and entrepreneurship has made humans more wealthier than before. The development of waterways, dams and irrigation systems. All this thanks to Islam. Atheism however has been a blight on the human race. It has contributed to extraordinary deaths on a large scale. Nazism, Communism, Racism and Discrimination examples of by product of Atheism. Modern concept such as Secularism is also a religious concept not an Atheist one. Atheist Turk, Atheism has no role in Education. The plight of African Americans is due to Atheism Atheist Turk not religion, seems like you need a reality check.
 

Guest - cevdet bey
2009-12-12 19:35:10
  good job Mr. Akyol. Separate but equal rule does not apply to Turkey. What is separate can never be equal. But then again, some are always more equal than the others right?
 

Guest - Elen
2009-12-12 19:33:00
  Why were so many imam-hatip schools established? Who established them and how? If you do not like them, then why do not you work to provide alternatives, or change their cirriculum? Is it fair to punish those kids -- and their numbers are not small-- bec of choices elders and betters made before they were born? Milli Gorus invested in education whenever whereverpossible over the course of 30 yrs in Turkey diligently, now they are reaping the benefits. The most determined wins. Any surprises there? Mustafa's piece holds an internal logic, but of course one crucial info that the supply provided by those schools exceeds the demand of the country for imams, by far too much. Again, not the fault of those kids who attend those schools, did they have many other REAL alternatives, i strongly doubt so.
 

Guest - AtheistTurk
2009-12-12 17:38:29
  Those who spit in the face of education and science will always remain as the dregs of society. Religion blinds people from truth and fact. It is the enemy of rationality. Therefore, religion has NO place in education. And well done for trivialising the century of suffering that African Americans went through in their struggle for civil rights. What an unbelievably puerile and laughable comparison.
 

Guest - wolf
2009-12-12 17:21:02
  @burba,co Many thanks for your comment. I share your view that the columns rather often do not even have the ambition to present an issue in some sort of objective manner, but instead see it as a way to propagate their philosophy. When something like in this case in revealed, how can such a journalist ever be trusted?
 

Guest - Demir
2009-12-12 15:40:34
  The imam hatip schools focus primarily on religious education and as such are only good for those who aim to work in some religious profession. The graduates of these high schools can enter theology schools with no problems. But to give the graduates of imam hatip schools the same coefficients as other high school graduates is to say that having a knowlege of the Koran and the Hadiths is equal in importance as subjects like Turkish, maths, physics, history etc when aiming to enter university. There is nothing anti-religious in this decision by the high court, just a reiteration of good old common sense.
 

Guest - burba,co
2009-12-12 13:54:38
  Please do not be fooled by Mr. Akyol’s exaggerative rhetoric. Using phrases such as “back of the bus” and “caste” attempt to compare African Americans and Indians who are born into their color or caste to Turkish families who make a free decision to send their children to these religious (or “imam-hatip”) schools when they have the option to send their children to public schools. Quite a distasteful technique. Readers, please remember that non-Turks are Mr. Akyol’s intended audience. The majority of the other columnists in this paper work write editorials for Turkish newspapers which are then translated here. On the contrary, Mr. Akyol is full-aware that many readers have little awareness on this issue and uses it to his full advantage when giving partial or misinformation . The original function of imam-hatip schools (which are, incidentally, publicly funded) is to train imams. This means that every Turkish taxpayer is funding the education of these students. This may seem acceptable if you are a mosque-attending, Sunni Muslim Turk and if the majority of students actually went on to become imams. As I will mention later, this is simply not the case. Mr. Akyol must be fully aware that it is grossly inaccurate to claim of imam-hatip students: “Their curriculum is not actually too different from normal high schools.” Readers with a knowledge of Turkish can see the imam-hatip curriculum on the Directorate of Education website here: http://dogm.meb.gov.tr/imam_hatip_ders_çizelge.htm For non-Turkish readers, let me briefly review (and roughly translate) the core curriculum of a 4th-year imam-hatip student: The Holy Koran = 5 hours, Arabic = 6 hours, Koran Interpretation = 2 hours, Comparative Religious History = 2 hours, Islamic History = 2 hours, Islamic Theology = 2 hours, Oration and Practical Training = 2 hours, Language and expression = 4 hours, Turkish literature = 4 hours. Other than the last 2 courses mentioned here, this curriculum is vastly different than that of a public high school. I am not a radical Kemalist, in fact I’m not even Turkish, however it seems clear to me that imam-hatip graduates do not receive the same academic formation as a standard high school student and therefore shouldn’t be seen as equal when entering university in a non-theological field. Imam-hatip schools may not be radical madrasas, but they are certainly not for moderately religious families either. I wonder if most of our readers are aware that female students make up a larger percentage of imam-hatip schools students than male? Women are not allowed to become imams, of course, so why would parents send their daughters to imam-hatip schools? It is because the female students are allowed to wear headscarves (which are forbidden in public schools) and are segregated from the male students and male teachers. Mr. Akyol, perhaps I can now use your “back of the bus/separate but not equal” metaphor here to describe the situation of female students studying at imam-hatip schools. If I were a Turkish taxpayer I would be outraged that my taxes pay for the religious education of students of which the vast majority will never go on to become imams anyway. In addition, I’ve also heard a firsthand account from a Turkish friend who studied Turkology at Istanbul University. The male imam-hatip graduates in her program refused to sit next to or engage in group work with female students of the department. In fact, they tried to avoid directly addressing the female students in general. If imam-hatip graduates neither have the academic background nor the requisite social training to function as normal students in university, then I fully support greater rigor given to their application.
 

Guest - Blue
2009-12-12 13:15:35
  High schools focused on religious ideological indoctrination of some type should not exist in any modern society whether the ideology is Baptist fundamentalist, Roman Catholic, Jewish or Muslim. High schools should be secular, and only teach comparative religion. Specific religion classes can be provided after school or on weekends, but should not be a part of a secular school system. This is a serious problem in many school systems, including schools in many major "Western developed" countries like the US. It is these school systems promoted by self-serving governments around the world that are responsible for the enabling of a "clash of civilizations". Tolerance of others' beliefs are not promoted in these religious schools. Schools like the Imam Hatips should only be for training Imams, if that. Those accepted to such schools should be limited by quota to the number of Imams needed in Turkey's mosques, and no more. Any future education should be in the field of religion, even comparative religion.
 

Guest - ameer_r2
2009-12-12 12:06:01
  This system emphasizes the difference between following "the rule of law" and the "rule of justice" All citizens should be equal in every respect but ıt seems that those who place religious knowledge and are commited to an Islamic life style are considered less equal based on a narrow secularist standard that requires astudent to show that he is not as smart but smarter than students from secular high schools. If private associations could organize their own schools and universities that met government stnadards the problem could be solved. It seems only legal minorities have that right even though restricted in implementation. How the elite became brainwashed regarding the value of religion and associating it with religion and backwardness should be examined to free the secular elite from this yoke of ignorance and prejudice that has divided society for so long.Islamic roots do not produce a poisonous or bitter fruit if allowed proper nurturing.
 

Guest - Bruce
2009-12-12 08:58:52
  "Now, if you haven’t been following the news closely, this might sound like Chinese to you. So, just in case, let me give a brief summary. (The columnist, above) --- Many thanks for giving us a bit of background. This newspaper is edited as if we all lived in Turkey and follow the news like hawks. Of course, not all of us do; I live in China and only occasionally read this newspaper. Much appreciated!
 

Guest - Unsal
2009-12-12 07:32:36
  Thank you Mr Akyol for your enlightening summary. Now I can hardly wait for Mr Bekdil playing spin doctor with this subject.
 

Guest - Zonkey
2009-12-12 05:35:11
  The existence of different coefficients is of course discriminatory and divisive. It should end. We can’t debate this aspect of Imam Hatip schools in isolation however. If we really are serious about preparing young people for a 21st century free of ‘caste systems’ shouldn’t we really be calling time on subjugating them within an imagined state of supernatural supervision as part of their education. Isn’t ‘religious education’ the grandest and most shameful oxymoron to afflict the human species ? Mr Akyol states that imam hatip graduates are fairly modern and quite diverse. Mmmmn. He reminds us in his article that ‘celebrity’ Recep Tayyıp Erdoğan is one such graduate. Not the most convincing argument Mustafa ! Some interesting reading can be found at http://www.tesev.org.tr/UD_OBJS/PDF/DEMP/IH%20Efsaneler&Gercekler2.pdf (some English) where the results of Imam Hatip graduates views on women’s issues are revealed to us. 90% of male graduates think that women should be veiled, a generous 16% of the same bunch think women can travel independently and 83% that women belong to the home. Keep religion as far away from education as possible please.
 

Guest - Andrew VA
2009-12-12 03:54:11
  'This is not too different from saying that blacks cannot sit together with whites on a bus, because they have different "legal statuses"-a difference that comes from nothing but a belief in inequality.' But these cases are different, and by no means analogous. The last time I checked, Turkish parents aren't required to send their kids to 'preacher' schools--it's still their choice. Legally mandated racial segregation in the United States, whether in public schools in the South or on the buses that took kids to these schools, of course left black parents, or for that matter, white parents, with no choice in the matter. It's not like black parents could opt out of blacks-only (or, in pre-1954 days, 'Negro'-only schools) schools for mixed schools if they wanted. Whether or not 'preacher' schools deserve to have their coefficients raised or not, that is another issue entirely. At least the students get instruction in Arabic, which has become an increasingly useful language in today's world. It probably won't be too long anyway before the current government gets its way on this matter by remaking the judiciary to suit its purposes.
 

Guest - Vilgot
2009-12-12 02:43:28
  There is no discrimination, since it is chosen by the kids (or parents) to go to such a school. If you are chosing to educate yourself in a school for "imams and preachers", then that is the profession you should enter. It would be like saying, "I was trained as an engineer, but I am discriminated against because the state does not allow me to practice as a medical doctor". If I for example want to have my car repaired, or my teeth looked after, I want to have it done by a mechanic or a dentist, not someone trained as a "imams and preachers", with the same logic as if I want to discuss religious matter, I would then turn to an Imam, and not a trained dentist. But since the topic of discrimination and religion is brought up, I would like to tell you about an incident a year ago in Istanbul. I went, with my wife, to a concert. The saloon had numbered seats. I went there found my seat and sat down. The place happened to be beside a woman with a head scarf. Right when I sat down, she stood up and walked away and took an vacant seat at the back row. My wife said it was because I am male. In the same vein some male refuse to shake hands with my wife, because she is a woman. The two examples are real discrimination and if something like the two example would take place not between genders, but between races, then that would be worse than apparheid.
 

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