Two senior Armenian experts express pessimism over the normalization talks between Turkey and Armenia, saying the hostility between the two countries will not be resolved in the near future. The rancor will not end, unless the Turkish government accepts responsibility for the ‘genocide,’ says one
The recent thaw between Turkey and Armenia, which are nearing a historic diplomatic agreement after years of animosity over alleged killings of Armenians during the late days of the Ottoman Empire, has been met with cynicism from some senior Armenian experts.
“For nearly 100 years, Turkey has denied the genocide fact that has wrecked Armenians. This hostility will not end unless the Turkish government accepts responsibility for the genocide,” said Ara Khachatourian, editor of Asbarez Daily News, one of the leading diaspora newspapers published in the United States.
Razmig Panossian, author and director of Policy for Programs and Planning at Rights and Democracy in Canada, agreed with Khachatourian, saying that he does not believe the long-standing hostility between the two nations will be solved in the near future. “It would be wrong to expect such a delicate historic trauma to come to a solution in a short time.” However, Panossian also said the dialogue between Turkey and Armenia should be encouraged despite the problematic timing and the thorny issues that are waiting to be solved.
Armenia claims up to 1.5 million Armenians were systematically killed in 1915 under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. Turkey denies this, saying that any deaths were the result of civil strife that erupted when Armenians took up arms for independence in eastern Anatolia.
Turkey and Armenia agreed on steps toward establishing full diplomatic ties for the first time between the neighbors in late August. Despite fierce domestic and international opposition, the two countries are expected to sign a landmark diplomatic deal this weekend in Zurich.
Diplomatic sources said both countries are now in a win-win situation, while admitting that the job of Armenian President Serge Sarkisian was much more difficult considering the protests of the Armenian diaspora, which were evident in Paris, New York and Los Angeles.
Khacatourian said the protest against Sarkisian would continue “because it is a basic right of the diaspora.” But, Panossian’s stance on the protests differs from Khacatourian. He said there are two diasporas: the “post-genocide diaspora” and the “post-1988 diaspora.”
“The ‘post-genocide diaspora’ will oppose Sarkisian’s policies toward Turkey due to its ultra-nationalist nature. On the other hand, the birthplace of the ‘post-1988 diaspora’ is Armenia and this group would support Armenia, therefore the policies of Sarkisian, whatever it costs,” he told Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review for the fourth edition of the Postcard from Armenia series.
Diaspora’s stance:
After the signing ceremony in Switzerland, the documents that aim to establish full ties will be dispatched to the respective parliaments for ratification. The ceremony will be followed by the World Cup qualifying match that will take place in Bursa on Oct. 14 between the Turkish and Armenian national teams.
The first protocol, covering the establishment of diplomatic relations, and the second, on the further development of bilateral relations, are accompanied by an annex that sets a clear timetable for the implementation of both.
A first sign of rapprochement came in September last year, when Turkish President Abdullah Gül went to the Armenian capital, Yerevan, to visit Sarkisian and watch a World Cup soccer qualifying match between the two countries.
The two neighbors have no diplomatic relations and their border has been closed since 1993, after Turkey’s decision to support its key ally, Azerbaijan, against Yerevan's backing of ethnic Armenian separatists in the breakaway Nagorno-Karabakh region.
Khacatourian also criticized Turkey for its Nagorno-Karabakh precondition to opening the Turkish-Armenian border. “Turkey has unilaterally closed the border and now it puts the Nagorno-Karabakh problem as the precondition to open it. Turkey is playing innocent at every stage and does not accept its responsibilities. The border should be opened with no preconditions because that is the fair thing to do.”
Panossian also said Turkey should not link the matter of the border opening with the Nagorno-Karabakh issue, urging the two countries to open their borders immediately. “Rather than discussing preconditions, the border between the two countries should be opened and diplomatic relations should begin,” he said
In our fifth Postcard from Armenia, geologists tell of the obstacles they have faced during their groundbreaking work near the Turkish-Armenian border.
READER COMMENTS
Guest - james (2009-10-22 11:08:06) :
@ Aspet Why should the Turks be sorry for something that was invented by the descendants of murderers, the Armenian diaspora. Actually the Diaspora should be deported to Turkey and pay for their ancestors genocidal crimes against the defenseless Turkish elders, women and children they raped, murdered and mutilated, while their fathers, husbands and sons were defending their country against the Allies and their dogs. Go to the link below and see what the Armenians did to the Turks and why the Armenians got their asses kicked and will their asses kicked again. California is a far as you can go but you can not hide. (http://www.tsk.tr/eng/ermeni_sorunu_salonu/armenianissues_index.htm)
Guest - Aspet (2009-10-17 14:31:38) :
It's such a pain to read all those denialist comments. At least people should have the courage to face history and say "we are very sorry for our forefathers' horrible murders", or "we are sorry and we condemn the actions of the Ottoman government against its own Ottoman citizens, the chhristians, Armenians particularly." BUt what I read is by all means trying to even deny the fact that the whole Armenian population in Eastern Anatolia was wiped out. Some Turks here make claims that they were traitors. My question then would be... were those helpless old women and men, newly born children who were unable to speak, were they traitors? What kind of cynicism is this? Or some Turks say, it was a war zone and those "traitors" had to be deported. Then my question is, how come people from Konya, Yozgat, Kayseri, Isparta, Smyrna, etc throughout Turkey, THROUGHOUT, east to west, south to north, Armenians of every age deported? Few survived, particularly in Istanbul. Anyway, what we have is that out of 2 million Armenians a few dozens of thousdands were left. And even after this why is it that out of 4.000 or so Armenians churches, a couple of hundred are left and almost in a collapsing and abandoned pieces of medieval Christian architecture? Were these witnesses of history to be wiped out too or it was just negligence? Anyway, there are so many questions that no denialist or brainwashed "intellectual" can answer. Last word about archives, people, just learn that archives in the US, Germany, Austria, France, Great Britain, Russia, Canada, Italy, Armenia, etc that concern this period have been very well researched by hundreds and thousands of scholars all around the world, even some Turkish archival materials have been accessed in this regard. And there is simply an overwhelming and undeniable history of the details of the genocide of the Armenian people at the hands of the Turkish leadership of the time. So please stop spreading this amateurish talk that archives need to be studied. Just talk to any genocide scholar of any natioanity, you will see that 99 out of 100 have no doubt about the veracity of the history of this period. some nuances can be addressed and added of course, but this is trivial now when you talk whether there was or not an Armenian genocide. One more thing, we Armenians do not say that you Turks are genocidal people, no way. I have so many Turkish friends. There were so many Turkish families who saved Armenian lives in that period, there were and there still are so many Turks who trust Armenians more than anyone else and vice versa. What is talked about now is that at some point people to people reconciliation must occur and this can not fully materialize until one side denies the horrible action of its forefathers' or its erstwhile government and even makes counter claims that these were traitors who were punished and exiled from the territories where they lived for 3.000 years and things like this. These people need some more reading, psychological readiness to face its own history and utter "we are sorry, yes there was a massive organized massacre of Armenians, which would correspond to the term genocide as defined by international law. but again and again we are sorry for what happened then and we stand firm that this never happened anywhere in and around our country"
Guest - Soler (2009-10-17 10:57:39) :
If Armenian diapora spend, more time and money helping Armenia rather than spreading poison against Turks, Armenia will be a richer country. President Gul is right, let’s set up a commission of historians from all round the World. Gul said ‘’we will accept the outcome of the commissions decision’’ Guess who is rejecting the idea? Armenian’s. What a surprise, is it just because truth may come out?
Guest - tamer (2009-10-15 03:18:54) :
I've read many comments from different people, If certain countries have guts ( Russia,England,France,USA) open their archives to public, let the truth come out and see if Turks really killed the Armenians and who started the bloody war? if you play with fire,you get burned.I advice the read the story from the Russian general's mouth,who was in charge of Russian & Armenian soldiers that time and learn,how armenians killed the civilians.
Guest - Sammy (2009-10-09 23:24:27) :
Question for all Armenians posting: How many unarmed civilian Ottoman Muslims (i.e., Turks) did your militants massacre throughout southeastern Anatolia before and during WWI? (let's see who's in denial now).
Guest - elsa (2009-10-09 11:09:47) :
Hi everybody, Umit's comment made me laugh, with people like him history repeates itself , people like him , (I bet there is lots like him) are so ignorant that a-not recognising history b-winning war by killing unarmed innocent people remind me of Talaat pacha (I bet you don't know him cause you dont know your history) Ignorant people like you better be quiet!
Guest - Khachik27 (2009-10-09 10:23:13) :
To UMIT Mr. Umit, I am happy that you are so optimistic person, but I would suggest you to be more realistic. Protocols will not come into force, and Turkey will again loose its prestige in world community
Guest - umit (2009-10-08 23:17:47) :
Hi everybody, especially Mr. Khachik27 First of all, we do not have to open the border at all...But as you know we will be leader of the this erea soon and Armenia has to accept what we want. Of course USA and the other European Countries support us but not Armenia any longer. Next decade will be turks period. They know our power, Armenia as well. Against all odds, we are neighbour and we helped all the time our poor neighbours since Ottoman Empire period. Don' t worry we never condone our neighbour's "life and death" stuation. Lets be friend, otherwise your guys will lose a good change to make peace. bye for now...umit
Guest - nabukednazar (2009-10-08 18:58:09) :
Country's land is sacred, it can't be left to its fate. sorry armenians, its not genocide. its the reality of war. the more powerful is the winner. 1915 incidents were the matter of creating a pure homeland for turks after losing great parts of lands. and likewise armenian diaspora, the great majority of turks are not endorsing this agreement. forget the opening of border. forget living in good economic and conditions in armenia. unless you withdraw from dağlık karabağ and sorry from turkish muslim community for your massacres during 1915s.
Guest - Seshell (2009-10-08 16:35:23) :
My friend Ari I will tell you what happened to those Armenians which you refer. They were all happy to livre the good times under Ottoman Empire but when the fortunes of the Empire declined what did they do? They left to suck the life of other countries like France and United states with alot of sob stories.Ask your elderly relatives for an honest answer. Those that could not leave joined the Russians and went on rampage killing Turks, not soldiers because they did not have the guts to face Mehmetchik , but women, pregnant included, children and the elderly. So my friend there is your answer. I think it is important that you admit your genocidal traits. Turkey has nothing to admit. Your money has bought a lot of US Senators and Congressman as well as French parlamenterians and others which makes you lot to think that they can make Turkey admit to things which they did not do. Keep the borsder closed all the time.
Guest - Karahan (2009-10-08 10:42:16) :
The Turkish goverment can not and should not appologize on behalf of the Turkish peoples, the so called genocide either fact or fiction has noting to do with th Turks of today. I'm originally from Trabzon (a black sea region north east of Turkey), from childhood we're told of the Armenians who commited a genocide on thousands of Turks who lived in this region prior to 1915. I personaly would encourage my nation to reconize the armenian genocide, but as for apologizing and compensating, that is a no no.
Guest - ari (2009-10-08 09:18:09) :
Why is the Turkish government avoiding recognizing the Genocide so hard so often so much? It claims there has not been a Genocide nor systematic killings; then how come out of 2 million armenians living on their homeland for 3000 years there stays no one now? They have just vanished? Evaporated? If so, is the turkish government ready and willing to return all the property that belonged to the Armenians to their ancestors? Can they go back and live in peace on their ancestoral lands? Questions worth thinking about right.....???
Guest - Khachik27 (2009-10-08 09:09:16) :
Cynicism is very dangerous word, then I would suggest that before writing this word s/he must be very circumspect. Yes, Turkey needs this open boarders, because it is instance of life and death, because you have dictate of Barack Obama to open boarder.If you will not do this then you will face big problems with Obama's administration. So, I would suggest you to stop histery. Diaspora's Armenians and Armenians who are living in Armenia are member of one nation. We are united, we are Armenians. Nobody, NOBODY, even such coarse figure as Regeb Taid Erdogan, and such wise diplomat as Gul (maybe one of the reasons is his Armenian roots). Turkey must recognise what he did, must apologize form its victim, must compensate our losses, and must obey to international community.
Guest - Khachik27 (2009-10-08 09:05:37) :
Cynicism is very dangerous word, then I would suggest that before writing this word s/he must be very circumspect. Yes, Turkey needs this open boarders, because it is instance of life and death, because you have dictate of Barack Obama to open boarder.If you will not do this then you will face big problems with Obama's administration. So, I would suggest you to stop histery. Diaspora's Armenians and Armenians who are living in Armenia are member of one nation. We are united, we are Armenians. Nobody, NOBODY, even such coarse figure as Regeb Taid Erdogan, and such wise diplomat as Gul (maybe one of the reasons is his Armenian roots). Turkey must recognise what he did, must apologize form its victim, must compensate our losses, and must obey to international community.
Guest - B. Baronian (2009-10-08 04:57:46) :
Animosity over alleged killings of Armenians during the late days of the Ottoman Empire. You are kidding right? Alleged Killings of Armenians??? Is this ome kind of a joke....? Will the Turkish Society ever grow up and admit the facts? I just wonder...but remember always...Allah is just and justice will one day be served.
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