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Thursday, July 29 2010 19:41 GMT+2
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Girl buried alive in honor killing in Turkey

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Thursday, February 4, 2010
ISTANBUL - Daily News with wires

A 16-year-old girl was buried alive by relatives in southeastern Turkey in a gruesome honor killing carried out because she reportedly befriended boys, the Anatolia news agency reported Thursday.

Acting on a tip, police discovered the body of the girl, identified only as M.M., in a sitting position with her hands tied, in a 2-meter-deep hole dug under a chicken pen outside her house in Kahta, a town in the southeastern province of Adıyaman, the news agency reported.

The body was found in December, around 40 days after M.M. went missing. She is being identified by her initials because she was under the age of 18. Her father and grandfather are suspected in the murder.

A subsequent postmortem examination revealed that M.M. had a significant amount of soil in her lungs and stomach, indicating that she was buried alive and conscious, forensic experts told the news agency. “The autopsy result is blood-curdling. According to our findings, the girl – who had no bruises on her body and no sign of narcotics or poison in her blood – was alive and fully conscious when she was buried,” one anonymous expert said.

The girl’s father and grandfather have been formally arrested and jailed pending trial over her killing, according to the agency. The father is reported to have said in his testimony that the family was unhappy that M.M. had male friends.

The girl was reported as missing and no clues about her disappearance were found for 40 days. Her mother was arrested along with the father, Ayhan, and grandfather, Memi, but later released. The two men were sent to prison by a local court and did not speak in the court.

Police had found the body of the girl using an anonymous tip saying that M.M. had been killed based on a decision by a family council and buried under the chicken pen, daily Milliyet reported. The family has nine children, including the girl, and was reported to have told neighbors that she was missing. The girl had made a complaint to police about her grandfather two months before she went missing, saying that he beat her because she talked to boys.

Family councils consist of family elders; honor killings are usually decided by such groups.


 

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Guest - Abdul the Plentiful
2010-02-11 13:11:31
  What does one expect considering the patently bizarre religious beliefs of the Turks and the Cult of Islam in general . . .
  

Guest - Henk Treurniet
2010-02-10 15:27:18
  everybody is trying to find an explanation for such a brutal and cowardly murder but justice would best be served to bury the culprits alive in a similar manner as done to the poor and defenceless victim. Henk Treurniet Paramaribo Suriname South America.
  

Guest - Altan
2010-02-08 16:27:48
  Some blame Turkey for not edutacing these Kurdish people, first of all they do not send their children, when Turkey forces them to, they blame Turkey for asimilation policy. Second, there is no ANIMAL in the world that needs some kind of EDUCATION to not to torture and kill their children. So it is completely stupid argument makes the subject even more disgusting.
  

Guest - ArchbishopDamaskinosWasRight
2010-02-07 22:41:29
  ( posted before, but numbers corrected ) It is interesting that very similar things happen every day in the USA and are never reported but when it happens in Turkey it is widely reported. In the USA, "gang stalking" groups go around poisoning whomever they think does not come up to their standards, they bribe the families to help, the police and government do nothing. Do a web search on gang stalking to see a bit. Frequently the poisoning end in death or severe physical damage. Sometimes the poisoning go on for over a dozen years. There is one family , the Nicholas and Evanthia Pitsilos Dectis family, that has been poisoning a family member for 13 years. They are both in their eighties. The ironic thing is that they are Greek and learned nothing when their family had to flee Turkey after World War I because they were killing their Turkish neighbors to take their things - because they thought the Greek Army was in Turkey to stay. If you do not believe me , call them in the USA - (610) 868-4962.
  

Guest - Meryem
2010-02-07 16:56:12
  Funny that everyone here is talking about who is to blame and (rarely) how to change it. It is my belief that change comes from within. Look to the strong Turkish women like Ayşe Onal, Müjgan Halis, Fazile Zahir, and the Kardelen Projesi for just a few examples of strident action being taken. And as for HDN's comment policy, I would argue that there are plenty of hate speech, libel and gratuitous insults not fostering an intelligent conversation, but inviting anger instead of resolution.
  

Guest - B
2010-02-07 14:30:24
  Forgive me, but I failed to see any reference to this family being muslim? I (like others posting here) tend to think it is more a matter of culture, rather than religion. People tend to get excited when it is a 'Muslim Country' in the headlines, but murder happens everywhere. Some will use their religion as an excuse (not that that appears to be the case here), but such actions certainly aren't required by the Koran. As in any culture (and religion), families have different morals and different views about what is acceptable behaviour. Obviously the tolerance level of these men is very different to those posting here.
  

Guest - riddle
2010-02-07 10:47:08
  this is not a matter of what religion did what. or who did what, or who killed who. this is a matter of a little girl being killed. a girl who had did nothing wrong being killed for something she did not commit. its about murder that occurs everywhere else in this world. i feel sorry for the girl who has been buried. may her soul rest in peace. and may justice be brought forth.
  

Guest - stery
2010-02-07 08:47:27
  someone had mentioned earlier that this is a problem typical in the kurdish communities of and from turkey. this is a problem typical for them because this is a group of people who in turkey are considered to be of a lower class, henceforth, not getting the same access to education, living conditions and basic societal treatment as the rest of the "modern" turkish society. sadly this is done within not only the uneducated kurdish community, it also happens in every islamic patriarchal based uneducated group - such as saudi arabia (where the people think that an eclipse is the end of the world). and this can only be combated with education and inclusion into the main society.
  

Guest - Reject of the Sword
2010-02-07 06:00:18
  Any people that would bury their own daughter alive was certainly capable of murdering its native Armenian population. In fact, burning and burying Armenians alive was widely practiced in Turkey between 1895 and 1915. It was certainly done in Urfa in 1895, where thousands of Armenians were burned alive in their own Cathedral. It was also widely done in Mush and Bitlis in 1915. But don't take my word for it. Read about it on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidian_massacres
  

Guest - Gobble Gobble
2010-02-06 19:12:11
  Erdogan also forgot to mention that the moment an unmarried girl talks to a boy she ceases to be a muslim. :( What a ridiculous bunch of throwbacks! And they try to sell us in the West that Turkey is a "moderate" muslim country with a secular government. They're secualr only if they hand the two old men in the town square.
  

Guest - monkee
2010-02-06 18:20:18
  Sounds like a tale from 6000 years ago.
  

Guest - ArchbishopDamaskinosWasRight
2010-02-06 13:37:04
  It is interesting that very similar things happen every day in the USA and are never reported but when it happens in Turkey it is widely reported. In the USA, "gang stalking" groups go around poisoning whomever they think does not come up to their standards, they bribe the families to help, the police and government do nothing. Do a web search on gang stalking to see a bit. Frequently the poisoning end in death or severe physical damage. Sometimes the poisoning go on for over a dozen years. There is one family , the Nicholas and Evanthia Pitsilos Dectis family, that has been poisoning a family member for 13 years. They are both in their eighties. The ironic thing is that they are Greek and learned nothing when their family had to flee Turkey after World War I because they were killing their Turkish neighbors to take their things - because they thought the Greek Army was in Turkey to stay. If you do not believe me , call them in the USA - (610) 868-4862.
  

Guest - AaVee
2010-02-06 13:32:25
  MM: I would say that honor murders do happen more among the Kurds, because many of them happen to live according to ancient tradition according to which men and women are not equal to each other. However, these horrific things are not a "Kurdish problem", they are a problem of backward ancient traditions combined with low level of education and low income. You are wrong about the need of addressing only the south east of Turkey as a solution, because 60% of the Kurds live elsewhere than in the south east of the country, and because in the Anataolia in general such events may happen among other ethnic minorities as well.The whole country needs to be addressed when dealing with the issue - also the majority Turks. I have written earlier that the core problem is the very common understanding in Turkey about the gender roles: men are seen as heads of the family who control what women do. This is the case in most of the ethnic Turkish families as well. My Turkish good friend witnessed a good example case 1 year ago in Ortaköy district of Istanbul: A Turkish husband was beating up his wife in the middle of the day when hundreds of people were just watching the event. Among them 2 policemen followed the case just 10 meters away from the scene (smoking and chatting lazily). Eventually, when the woman's nose was bleeding, the policemen approached the couple and shouted at teh husband that "please stop". The husband replied: "stay away, this is a family issue!!!" Guess what the brave policemen did do? Well, they continued smoking and chatting and let the husband continue his coward beating of course, because they obviously thought that "yes, it's a family issue and the man has right to put the wife in order". As long as such events are considered "normal" in Turkey, there is not much hope for equality.
  

Guest - Mia
2010-02-06 11:26:26
  Hello from the US As horrible as the murder of this girl is I think that its great that so many people - Turk, Kurd, Muslim, Jewish, Christian - all agree that this is a horrible crime and that honor killings must stop. However, until communities agree that honor killings do not cleanse the family name but destroy it instead, parents will continue to kill their children. One way to prevent more honor killings is to keep these kinds of stories alive in the media and to print the names of the families, because people who commit honor killings hate public shame.
  

Guest - Mia
2010-02-06 11:19:52
  Hello from the US As horrible as the murder of this girl is I think that its great that so many people - Turk, Kurd, Muslim, Jewish, Christian - all agree that this is a horrible crime and that honor killings must stop. However, until communities agree that honor killings do not cleanse the family name but destroy it instead, parents will continue to kill their children. One way to prevent more honor killings is to keep these kinds of stories alive in the media and to print the names of the families, because people who commit honor killings hate public shame.
  

Guest - steve
2010-02-06 09:32:51
  Sorry I forgot to mention did Erdogan not say a Muslim cannot kill another Muslim. But hey may be in this case it is ok!
  

Guest - steve
2010-02-06 09:28:43
  When you have a legal system that is not worth the paper it is written on and the people have no respect for it. İt is no wonder that these barbaric things happen. If you read this news and it was from some third world African country everyone would be horrified but for some strange reason when it happens in your own front yard the opinion is oh well it happens! Just another storey that is putting Turkey into another Barbarib human rights crime.
  

Guest - Anonymous
2010-02-06 08:29:45
  And they say Turks aren't genocidal. If they will kill their own children, they would have no problem killing and raping 1.5 million Christian Armenians.
  

Guest - Anonymous
2010-02-06 07:46:50
  And they say Turks aren't genocidal. If they will kill their own children, they would have no problem killing and raping 1.5 million Christian Armenians.
  

Guest - mm
2010-02-06 07:41:08
  Someone said this is a problem typical for Islam. That is incorrect, this is a problem typical for the Kurds. In Europe and in Sweden, where I live, there have been a number of honor-killings. Every single one was committed by Kurdish relatives/families. Killing in the name of honor is a problem everywhere in the world where the Kurds live. It is important to know this so that it can be prevented in the future. In Turkey this must be fought with good education, hard punishment and shelters for women. Especially in the south-east. This cannot go on. Its 2010, its time for this tradition to vanish.
  

Guest - ozz
2010-02-06 07:19:59
  We need to follow a "Live and Let Live Policy". Simple thats all!
  

Guest - Gelo
2010-02-06 07:18:36
  People are quick to conclude that honor killing is a kurdish thing. Lets not forget how violent some Turks and Turkish police become when it is National Women day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygVL_GNAlzI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jiB2jwLRGg http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=13545 Yes, and it is perfectly alright that the people were hurt in this way - they are all terrorists, right? Now, i am not gonna sink to the same low level of all you racist Turks who have commented in here. I see there are also rational Turks, and I am happy about that. I am not going to conclude that because it happens in the fascist branches of Turkey ( women torturing, rape, killing) it is a TURKISH thing. That i wont say. The DTP and PKK speak of womens right. Every year millions of women Kurdish and Turkish gather to demonstrate on the behalf of women rights. 30% of the guerilla is women, and there is no difference between man and woman in the guerilla. Zilan was a woman, and she was a brave one. Beritan was a woman. Delila was a woman. LEYLA ZANA IS A WOMAN. EMINA AYNA IS A WOMAN. We have Kurdish woman mayors in the kurdish cities. Is this not womans right? How can you say we kurds do not respect women?
  

Guest - anon
2010-02-05 23:04:53
  blame it on religion! it is one of the worst things men ever came up with! and still, after years and years of so called "evolution", men still make desicions like these because some imaginary friend told them to do so. sad.
  

Guest - Ty520
2010-02-05 22:24:33
  As a supposed "religion of peace," these people come up with some of the most barbaric, horrid punishments imaginable for the most trivial and inconsequential behaviours. These people truly are of another world - a dark, vile, barbaric, blood-thirsty realm that should be wiped from existence
  

Guest - Can
2010-02-05 20:46:55
  Fatih, you hit the nail on the head. And also, if the government tries to stop these practices, it will be accused of trying to "destroys Kurdish identity and culture". These folks will always find a way to bash Turks/Turkey.
  

Guest - AaVee
2010-02-05 20:35:19
  Fatih: I don't think anyone here called the Turks as "barbarians", but those individuals who committed this terrible murder. They are actually more inhumane and ignorant than barbarians ever were. Most of the Turks of any ethnic origin strongly condemn this act. I just cannot believe that one brainwashed conspiracy theorist came here to tell us that it was all lies and caused by the Jews to make Turkey look bad! So the Jews made up the story, which was revealed by Turkish police forces? Since when they have been controlled by the Jews? Howabout the EU, USA or space aliens? Ignorance can obviously never be underestimated.
  

Guest - The Great Atilla
2010-02-05 20:07:11
  I hope that you all know that this is more of a Kurdish thing. Honor killings comes from a Kurdish tribal mindset, and has nothing to do with Turks. The same Kurds that some people in the world are clamoring that Kurds should have their own country. Well, if they did have their own country, this would be legal and widely practiced.
  

Guest - pachuli
2010-02-05 19:52:20
  the goverment or the authorities should also kill ,hang,burn alive to those people who did this ,,!!what a shame !!!! they have to pay with dead also!!!kill ``em
  

Guest - Fatih
2010-02-05 17:47:02
  Im not going to put the blame on Kurds, while it is true majority of these so called 'honour killings' are commited by Kurds this particular one especcialy since the area is dominantly Kurdish, only those in rural areas commit this act of attrocity not all Kurds. But Im amazed that Hurriyet missed that fact, but on the other hand Im not supprised since this is a lose-lose situation (like so many others) with our 'foreign friends' who are so quick to call us BARBARIANS and how evil the Turks are since this thought is a bit more pleasant than imagining those people they defend, when suited, so passionately commits this crime, so in conclision even if Hurriyet did call these people waht they are (Kurds) then we would probably hearing about how we mean to smear Kurds name in order to hide our crimes. Here is a bit more 'bolder' covarge of a recent 'honor' killing by BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8311200.stm
  

Guest - scepticalyabanci
2010-02-05 17:24:40
  This type of unspeakable act will continue until the wider society and the state institutions condemn them sufficiently and punish them with the appropriate severity. Cases of this nature are cases of pre-meditated murder and should result in life imprisonment withoutthe possibility parole for the perpetrators. Concepts of 'honour' are not mitigating factors.
  

Guest - aby-saifan
2010-02-05 17:02:03
  I lived through Armenian pogroms in former USSR, Turkish speaking part of it. That is why I believe what this article says. How does the story goes? scorpion cannot help himself because certain thing are in his nature to do.
  

Guest - YOPE
2010-02-05 16:41:07
  only God Almighty knew the mind of the little girl weather its bad or good but i think she has a good mind nothing in her mind of what her parents think about talking to a boy, is it punishable to talk to anybody?
  

Guest - Harry Foundalis
2010-02-05 16:24:48
  To those commentators who keep saying that this is a cultural problem and not one related to Islam: I believe you are blindfolded by your religion. The problem is indeed related to Islam, but in the following very indirect and abstract way, which your religious thinking doesn’t allow you to perceive: Islam is the only one among the “major” (widespread) religions that violates one of the most important moral codes, the so-called “Golden Rule of Ethics”, which says: “Do unto others as you would wish others to do unto you.” An immediate consequence of this rule is that THE SEVERITY OF PUNISHMENT SHOULD NOT EXCEED THE SEVERITY OF THE VIOLATION. And yet, there is one major religion that’s full of examples of violation of the Golden Rule. It’s the religion that says “persecution is worse than slaughter” (Qur’an 2:191), which tells Muslims that to murder someone is less serious than that person persecuting you. This is not an isolated instance, or “a slip of Allah’s tongue” (actually of Muhammad’s). If you read about Muhammad’s life, as is known from the hadiths, you’ll see that it’s full of instances in which he violated this rule. For example, Muhammad arranged for the murder of the Jewish poet Ashraf, because Ashraf insulted him with his writings (Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 52:270–271). He arranged for the brutal murder of another critic of his, the woman Asma bint Marwan, and afterwards he stated “Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.” (Ishaq:676). He decapitated (with the help of the sword of his Muslim men) another person who bothered him, Ocba, the father of a little girl (Ishaq:308). It’s not just these few examples. Yes, I know that Muhammad also said “Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you”, but read the history of Muhammad’s life and keep track of every violation of the Golden Rule by him — you’ll have your jaw dropped to the ground. If all these stories are “false hadiths”, as some Muslims claim, then if you remove them, almost nothing will remain of your recorded ancient Islamic history. In Qur’an, too, the Golden Rule is violated numerous times — naturally, because it’s the creation of the same man. (If you believe that Allah wrote the Qur’an, then an Allah who disagrees with the Golden Rule must be a very miserable being, indeed.) Now, how are such violations of the Golden Rule related to this incident of murdering the poor teenage girl? It’s subconscious. By seeing numerous examples of violation of the Golden Rule, Muslims never learn the concept. So they apply maximum punishment for even the most innocent “sins”. That’s why they stone to death adulterers in some Muslim cultures without thinking that there is something inhuman in what they do. That’s why they allow lashings of women, and amputation of hands, and yes, burying innocent children alive. Before you hurry to object to this connection between Islam and immorality, learn first: read your ancient Islamic history as stated in your holy texts, read moral philosophy as has been expressed for about 2500 years, learn how other major religions incorporate the Golden Rule, and study psychology and cognitive science, to learn about how the subconscious influences conscious decisions. Then think. Finally, talk.
  

Guest - Bruce
2010-02-05 16:14:27
  I can't believe it. I was kidding the other day when I said someone would blame Israel for the murder. And guess what? The moron called 'T' actually did ! Well, pretty close. He says Israel and Jews made up the story to deflect attention away from Israel. See, this is the insanity that Islamic extremism has caused within mainstream Islam. I wonder if there is any longer a difference ( or ever was ) between the two.
  

Guest - to ALL TURKS, not just Kurds
2010-02-05 15:13:59
  I have read all the comments below, and only one (Kent) admitted that this is a problem that concerns the whole of Turkey. To all those of you who keep repeating “Oh, this is them Kurds, it’s not us Turks!” I have to say you are hypocrites. You must decide what you want: a country that includes its present-day Eastern lands, inhabited mostly by Kurds, or a country without those regions? If you want a Turkey with its borders as they are now, then all of you (ethnic Turks and ethnic Kurds, and everybody else), all citizens of Turkiye, have to accept responsibility for what is happening in your county. You can’t hide your head in the sand and cry “It’s Kurds who did it again, not us Turks!” You are all citizens of one nation, and you bear responsibility for what happens in it, if not for any other reason, at least because you vote for an administration that has the power (but unfortunately not the will) to change things. Ethnic Turks, either downsize your country to include you only (which of course you will never do), or accept responsibility. You can’t have the pie whole and eat it.
  

Guest - S.M. B.
2010-02-05 15:04:35
  To my Turkish fascist brothers, and some of you, European savagers! To my Turkish fascist brothers! When Kurdish natural and human rights are concerned, you say Kurds are your brothers and thus you're one united nation living in one big country called Turkey in which all its citizens are treated equally thanks to its constitutional human and democratic laws etc. But when such a crime is commited, then you rush to disgrace Kurds by wrongly arguing this tragedy is embedded into Kurdish culture etc. However, both you and we know very well that this accusation is not true because otherwise we should see such a barbaric act would happen very frequently in Kurdish dominated areas in Turkey which obviously doesn't happen. So this family cannt represent any culture howsoever. As an example, and by daily basic, many terrible mind-blowing crimes are taking place even in cities like Istanbul and Ankara commited by many criminal actors such as some gangs etc. But we Kurds never ever allow ourselvs to condmn Turks as criminals. No. Wo don't. By the way, how many times political prisoners in Turkey have been targeted for such a similar crimes are known for all of us and therefore you should be very cautious when judging other people than you. Just read about the criminal activities of Turkish-Made Hizballah which had buried alive many prominent Kurds. So one persons' own father/brothers/uncles criminal act against himself/herself has nothing to do with a nation like Kurdish who numbered ca 40.000.000 and indeed very open when meetings with men and women are concerned like when they dance etc. To some of you European savagers! Shut up because your the bad records of your past and contemporary history should be a clear indication showing the broad use of savagery, rape, incest (like one that was revealed recently in Holland) and killing other nations with aim of your advanced merciless technologies. What Americans have done against dauthers and women of some parts of Iraq, should be enough to say that you should shut up when these issues are concerned. Me personally know a lot about Scandinavian people amongst whom incest happens on daily basic. So both you and we know very well who you really are. In Sweden the rate of divorce is ca 70%. And the question is what happens with all these children when someone else take over their fathership or mothership of these innocent children? Many of these children have shown up e.g. in TV and have openly revealed both incest and rape etc committed by their closest relatives. But at least, incest doesn't happen amonst whether Kurds or Turks.
  

Guest - Murat
2010-02-05 14:58:28
  I hope these so-clled men burn in hell. What kind of honor can there be for anyone involved in this barbarity? It is a shame there is not a bigger outrage. Such customs predate Islam though, not that it stops Islamophobics from enjoying the moment. Part of that wonderful Kurdish culture for which so many have sacrificed! Where is their leaders now? What do they do about all this? Shame.
  

Guest - purple blue
2010-02-05 14:54:30
  Unacceptable behavior, everybody said education can change this, but i doubt, cause even the uneducated ape knows how to protect their children and don't bury them alive. Spiritual leaders should do something together with the Government.
  

Guest - Fatih
2010-02-05 13:53:45
  you shouldnt put the blame on Kurds, while it is true majority of these so called 'honour killings' are commited by Kurds this particular one especcialy since the area is dominantly Kurdish, only those in rural areas commit this act of attrocity not all Kurds. But Im amazed that Hurriyet missed that fact, but on the other hand Im not supprised since this is a lose-lose situation (like so many others) with our 'foreign friends' who are so quick to call us BARBARIANS and how evil the Turks are since this thought is a bit more pleasant than imagining those people they defend, when suited, so passionately commits this crime, so in conclision even if Hurriyet did call these people waht they are (Kurds) then we would probably hearing about how we mean to smear Kurds name in order to hide our crimes. Here is a bit more 'bolder' covarge of a recent 'honor' killing by BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8311200.stm
  

Guest - Scott
2010-02-05 13:46:14
  Greetings from Massacusetts, I was saddened to hear of the death of the young girl in such a heartless manner. My condolences to those who loved her.I have no doubt that those who committed the crime were doing what they thought was right. So, the real question for the world, not just the great nation of Turkey, is, what standard is to be used to judge the actions of people worldwide? Each day senseless killings take place on our planet. What is the solution? Abraham is quoted in the sacred record saying, "Is the judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?" One day he will by means of God's kingdom ruling over the earth. Until then let us individually pursue peace with one another.
  

Guest - Balance
2010-02-05 13:38:47
  A despicable act of course but despicable acts occur everywhere in the world and to claim that such barbarity is in the nature of Turks/Kurds/Islam and to make such comments as 'another reason for Turkey not to get into the EU' are grossly simplistic and simply ridiculous. There have been terrible acts against babies by their own families here in the UK where I live but noone is shouting about getting Britain out of the EU! Yes, it is true that there should be clear and urgent action to put an end to these honour killings but responding to these with one's most basic instincts is not helpful in the least.
  

Guest - Gozde
2010-02-05 13:36:25
  Its a Kurdish tradition. If it happens out of the southeast at all, the people/family behind will have a migratory background from that region . In my hometown Mersin, so called "honor killing" were unheard of before Kurds started coming here in large numbers. You may call this "racism" on my part, but its just an observation. You can't come up with a solution if you can't properly recognise what the problem is.
  

Guest - Fatih
2010-02-05 13:31:24
  Wow there is another Fatih here? Thats cool. But Im not going to put the blame on Kurds, while it is true majority of these so called 'honour killings' are commited by Kurds this particular one especcialy since the area is dominantly Kurdish, only those in rural areas commit this act of attrocity not all Kurds. But Im amazed that Hurriyet missed that fact, but on the other hand Im not supprised since this is a lose-lose situation (like so many others) with our 'foreign friends' who are so quick to call us BARBARIANS and how EVIL the Turks and muslims are since this thought is a bit more pleasant than imagining those people they defend, when suited, so passionately commits this crime, so in conclision even if Hurriyet did call these people what they are (Kurds) then we would probably hearing about how we mean to smear Kurds name in order to hide our crimes. Here is a bit more 'bolder' covarge of a recent 'honor' killing by BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8311200.stm
  

Guest - T
2010-02-05 13:23:07
  This story is a lie, most likely it was created by some Zionist organization to keep the focus off of Israel
  

Guest - AaVee
2010-02-05 12:45:49
  These cruel inhumane and barbaric acts are very old traditions in the world's history and not as such deriving from any religion or ethnic population - even though most probably the father and grandfather who brutally murdered this innocent girl are explaining the deed for themseleves through religious and cultural concepts. Anyway, in today's world these events do give a bad name especially to Muslim countries, and in particular to their low-educated, poorest and religious-conservative fragments. When it comes to Turkey, it makes no sense to label one ethnic group (Kurds) as guilty for this insane tradition, because the Turkish consitution defines everyone as a "Turk" and other ethnic groups are not recognized by name. This means that these barabaric events do still happen in TODAY's "MODERN" TURKEY, commited by TURKISH citizens. This particular event is a problem of Turkey and these events must be stopped in a way or another. The core of the problem is psychological: girls/women are seen as property of men or at least belonging to the custody of their male relatives (which is NOT how the modern Turkish laws have it). Signs of this perception exist even among many of the better educated, secular and civilized families and it is either directly supported or silently accepted by even many parliament & government members, policemen, judges etc. This is the main problem, because it makes women/girls subjected to the domination of any male person in Turkish families, thus dependent on them and their decisions. This is even the case of many highly educated and financially independent women - even though disobedience may not lead to such cruel outcomes. In a huge amount of Turkish families boys are brought up as omnipotent "pashas" who are independent and can make their own decisions. Their sisters clean and cook with the mother and other female relatives and serve the little pashas food and refreshements while they watch football from the TV- and while doing as the mother and father order, they should be obedient even to their brothers!!!! When a girl/woman goes to police to complain about domestic violence-even life threats, the policemen usually ask them to "go back home and solve it with your family/husband". When issuing a court case, family members guilty for incest, rape, murder or any form of violence are often getting short verdicts if not even getting away with it. Here's how the representatives of law treat women here in Turkey. Women's position in the low educated poor families is of course the worst.
  

Guest - Johnny
2010-02-05 12:34:17
  I feel disgusted and outraged by this terrible murder. How on earth can you do something like that to another human being? let alone your own daugter. I do think that this is a mixture of lack of education and religion (all of them), and I have an university degree. That other religions do the same (much less spread and less frequently I have to say) doesn't make it less horrible I wish that religious leaders were also outraged and condemned publicly this horrible act, have they?. As well as the Parlament and public opinion. I guess if no one says anything is because at the bottom of their hearts they believe this poor girl "deseved" her punishment. I am sure that if this was a stupid fault during a Galatasaray-Besiktas match, there would be riots in the streets and cars burning. But as this is a "family matter" we are not allowed to say anything. To hell with these bastards.
  

Guest - 7 Hills
2010-02-05 11:43:19
  A word to the comments calling for the government to speak out against these evil disgusting acts. First of all.. These uneducated backwards thinking people are cheap and easy votes. Think back to the last big election and the scandals about free appliances, coal, etc. Secondly, why would anyone want to educate them and cause those votes to either disappear.. or become more expensive? Yes this sounds unrealistic but what kind of people are we dealing with here? A large section of the population is uneducated and it does not seem to be an important issue here. Education is a key to change things and the way people think and behave. It is a known fact so why do we have to continue to say it.. and the educated government and leaders don't seem to hear us.. or do they hear but refuse to listen? This is about culture and people living like they are in the dark ages.. or just plain animals. I feel so sad for the women that are trapped like caged chickens in a pen. They are just possessions..
  

Guest - Jonas
2010-02-05 11:27:32
  This is not about education, this is not about Muslims, this is not about the Koran. These people are tribal and have their own rules. The government must step in and stop this barbarity. If these 'tribes' do not wish to abide by the laws of the land, then they must be imprisoned indefinitely.
  

Guest - David. S
2010-02-05 11:21:56
  Honour killings and lesser punishments, are for the most part seen within Muslim communities around the world. This is not to say they are part of Islamic belief, but there is no doubt they are part of a cultural tradition, which includes female servitude, forced marriage, incest and rape, within some Islamic communities. Those who seek to blame only Kurds for this are delusional at best. Honour killings are seen in Europe and quite probably elsewhere in the west, but as far as I'm aware, all carried out by Muslims....whether they be Kurds, Turks, Pakistani, Iraqi, Iranian.....etc. etc. There is no doubt, abuse against women is also common everywhere, but the vile concept of killing for the sake of honour is, I'm afraid, almost entirely exclusive to the Muslim world. And it is the Muslim world that must find a way, within itself, to both punish those responsible and prevent such acts of depraved barbarism from continuing to be an accepted part of traditional life. These words are not intended to suggest other religions, cultures or traditional beliefs are superior....all have their shameful sides that they have to deal with.
  

Guest - Yudhisthira
2010-02-05 10:37:18
  Sedat is talking about not 'dissumular' episodes in Catholic Italy ?! When was the last time there was honor killing in Italy? I mean, not performed by Pakistani immigrants, of course. And castration of christian Somali women?! Somalis are muslims. That there are exceptional cases of Yezidi barbarism, christian infibulations in Egypt, and hindu terrorism does not cancel the fact that the great majority of these acts are made in the name of one religion and one religion only. The problem are not the muslims: the problem is islam, and its inability of catching up with the last centuries. That Turkey, which is supposed to be the most secular of muslim countries, refuses to acknowledge this and keeps finding scapegoats (it's the kurds; as if it does not happen among turks of Anatolia) does not bid well for its development.
  

Guest - ibrahim
2010-02-05 10:07:24
  hi IF ONLY TO blame is the turkish goverment,they kept the kurds to live in the dark age for all this year. no investment no education no rights.
  

Guest - Kent
2010-02-05 09:52:12
  These people can and shall not be recognized as Muslims, christains ...whatever the belief, Even non believers would be sick to their stomaches of this horrible act. Education yes/no. Would it help? There are alot of uneducated people in the world. But uneducated ppl in other parts of the world would never accept these kind of acts. Honour? No...there is off course no honour in killings of small girls and especially women who makes mistakes or whatever the No doubt that this brings alot of Shame to my country, nevertheless it is our problem, since they are turks aswell. however...it is surprising that small communities, cut off from the world...can harbour such a twisted, mentally sick behaviour. My sincere hopes are that these acts doesnt run out into the sand. A real debate needs to bring about changes and seek solutions to what to do about these problem. Their problems are Turkeys problem.
  

Guest - Zouk
2010-02-05 09:33:32
  The person or persons who committed this horrible crime in the name of "honor killing" must be given life sentence as an example to others who are contemplating such crimes. Then and then only the number of "honor killings" can be reduced. It is a shame on a country that is trying to join the EU as a full member. I hope, Mr. Erdogan will visit the place of the crime and make a public statement condemning the crime.
  

Guest - terry
2010-02-05 09:16:56
  This is such a terrible crime in any country, let alone Turkey, To kill your own child is beyond belief to any decent human being. So how could a family have a meeting and deciede with the mother father, grandparent to murder a young girl in such a horrible way, The shocking and cruel way to die, suffocating by being buried alive under a chicken coop. Are these turks animals? no less then animals. Why hasn't the so called government started an education program to bring these barbaic people out of the dark ages. In any other country the other children would be removed by police and government officials to protect them and the parents imprisoned for many years and publicly humilated for what they are. Barbaric creatures. How can Turkey even try to pretend to be in the modern world. Hitting beating torturing and murdering girls and woman for being normal and being equal and wanting friends and their own life. I agree with previous comments, where is the Iman's and religous leaders in Turkey stopping this muderous way of life.
  

Guest - Carlos
2010-02-05 08:59:29
  The same men that do the "Honor Killing" Would they not, given an opportunity, take advantage of a another woman themselfes? Where is their honor. Honor killing is an insane concept, Why not also kill the perpetrator of such an dishonorable act?
  

Guest - Leila
2010-02-05 07:50:57
  How cruel and shallow people can be and the worst thing we call ourselves civilized, this silly thing called Honor killing is the most shameful sin we have in Turkey. Sadly nothing is being done , girls will die for all these false excuses and others will walk free, 'honor restored"
  

Guest - Serkan
2010-02-05 07:43:42
  The AKP wanted to "expand Kurdish cultural rights". Well, here's the result
  

Guest - Jeff
2010-02-05 07:27:03
  So i'm not exactly an expert on how the whole EU accession process works, but my guess would be that a country where girls are buried alive in the name of religion and whose Prime Minister welcomes the president of Sudan to his country as an "honored guest" despite hundreds of thousands of people being slaughtered in his country over the last several years, probably doesn't have national values terribly congruent with those of the European Union... just my two sense.
  

Guest - Vural Korkmaz
2010-02-05 07:03:46
  Morality and respect to human rights cannot be achieved by legislation (by force); only education can do that. Unfortunately the major components of the education system (family, school, religion, etc) are not working together as a cohesive unit to achieve that objective. Turkish school system is up against the many centuries old family traditions and their unique understanding of religion that created the honor-killing culture in the Turkish Southeast and other Kurdish dominated regions of the neighboring countries. Since the independence, a good chunk of time has been wasted; the 20th Century has come and gone, and already almost the 1st decade of the 21st Century has come and gone with or very little improvement to show for it. The only remedy some people see for the problems like this is to rise up the government and kill more innocent people and try to establish a marxist, leninist, communist PKK dictatorship which is another form of brute force. Instead, working out a cooperation between the components of the education system (family, religion and school) to achieve respect to human rights and catch up with the 21st Century. Will we live long enough to see that? Only the God knows!
  

Guest - Basil
2010-02-05 05:01:31
  Such actions are more common, unfortunately, in the East, in the Kurdish areas. In Northern Iraq, where many Kurds live, this also happens. It's not only Muslims who do it. I believe also a Yazidi girl was killed in Iraq. They are not Muslims. This action is not Islamic, it's barbaric. It's however connected to a patriarchal culture that says women are below men. The Yazidi girl in Iraq (Kurdish) was killed for allegedly converting to Sunni Islam. After she was killed, some Sunni Muslims killed 23 Yazidis in retaliation for killing the Yazidi born girl. Such outdated thinking needs to be dealt with in Turkey through education, more shelters for young girls in very traditional areas and long jail time for perpetrators. This practice will become more and more rare with time even in the East. Of course, many Kurds have no problem with a girl talking to boys. It's normal but some are stuck in the past.
  

Guest - Pathetic
2010-02-05 04:48:33
  Pathetic tiny men. They dishonor their family and call it honor? Hell is too good for them. It has nothing to do with culture. Murder plain and simple.
  

Guest - Sedat
2010-02-05 04:48:09
  This incident is another example of how uneducated person act, not dissimular to Hindu's in India, Catholics in Italy, Christians in Haiti etc. This type of behaviour is not religion spacific, its more a centralised cultural issue, not unlike the castration of 'Christian women in Somalia and other Christian African countires. It has nothing to do with religion. For the poorly educated or highly discriminative person such as 'Guest - hornblower' who is to scared to identify themselves, perhaps its a case of ' people in glass house should not throw stones. That poor girl, may she rest in peace.
  

Guest - Pathetic
2010-02-05 04:18:54
 
 

Guest - Michele
2010-02-05 03:55:49
  I feel sick to the stomach!!! God bless that child for doing no wrong. These are not animals who carried out such wicked and evil acts - no animal would do such to their young. I think the government urgently need to address this issue of dishonorable murder, with haste! Is life not precious in Turkey???????
  

Guest - ara
2010-02-05 02:29:40
  One more reason why Turkey has no place in Europe!
  

Guest - NT
2010-02-05 01:17:54
  J2, you should go to university and study. Your words are revolting. You need to know the difference between religion and tradition. Stop thinking tradition is from religion. I feel sorry for you, i really do.
  

Guest - Syd 73
2010-02-05 00:43:06
  Speechless. This is murder, regardless of the situation. Let's see how the justice system handles this. Those responsible should be kept behind bars for the rest of their rotting lives... Honour... they have no honour.. No book in the world justifies such action. May the little girl rest in peace.
  

Guest - Gila
2010-02-05 00:01:53
  To enlighten some commentators here, some issues needs to be corrected. Honour killings are not Islamic rulings and are not Turkish traditions either. Honour killings are Kurdish tradition. Honour killings, polygamy, exchanging women for money and goods, marrying in-laws after wife/husband dies are quite common traditions in Kurdish culture. These dark traditions are practiced by the Kurdish community in the UK, Germany, France, other European countries with Kurdish population, and in Iraq. As for the incest, a recent study conducted by Kurdish professors in Hakkari in southeast Anatolia's largely Kurdish populated area reveals that 35 percent of Kurdish women suffer from incest rape. Professors also point out 35 percent are only the ones who came up to talk. Professors assume there are much more women in Kurdish society suffering from incest and sexual abuse, but they are too afraid to speak up due to Kurdish feudal society.
  

Guest - Philip
2010-02-04 23:37:44
  Islam is a very sick religion. It's the only religion that has Honor Killing. It's the only religion that stones women to death. The Muslim women and Muslim girls are not treated as equal in Islam.
  

Guest - katie
2010-02-04 23:24:11
  What a shame you don't have capital punishment in Turkey. Only something far more sinister will put a stop to these DIShonour killings. Families have been getting off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist for generations. When will courts see this is not ' honour killing' it's grotesque murder !!!
  

Guest - Jenny
2010-02-04 23:13:41
  Funny that Islamitic countries often see incest as a 'western syndrom', while its of course happening everywhere in the world. Maybe especially in very strict Islamitic countries, where there are no opportunities to meet people of the other gender. Well, at least prostitution is legalised in Turkey, the men can go there. But of course then these women are bad, not the whorehoppers. How hypocrite.
  

Guest - Bruce
2010-02-04 23:13:16
  I betcha Israel and the Jews get blamed for this murder. :)
  

Guest - hpg
2010-02-04 22:55:29
  I cannot think about this "honor" other than the ultimate evil, Satanic in terms of religion. May they forever burn in hell, if there is one, but something has to be done in this world. If you see the mild punishments these bugs get in Turkish courts (nowadays it seems a high sentences first to mislead observers and subsequently reductions close to zero) it may be concluded that much of Turkey's judiciary, from bottom to top, consists of mental accomplices. hpg
  

Guest - cem
2010-02-04 22:32:25
  i am very sorry to say that it is this kind of primitive mentality that demonstrates to the rest of the world how turkey shows itself on the world stage..there is no reason for this type of ignorant and primative behaviour and i feel the responsibility lies with the athourities(government)to educate their people
  

Guest - Omar B.
2010-02-04 22:04:42
  This horrendous act from Jahiliyah is beyond despicable, beyond words of condemnation! How Muslims can accept this Anti-Islamic barbarity challenges belief. Have you not read and understood the Quran for God's sake?! "The unlawful killing of a person is like the killing of all humanity"! In this case you have indeed killed all humanity! How else can one be so cruel and unfeeling to one's own daughter. You murderous lowlife! Shame will cover you in this life, and in the next, and honour will never again approach you, Insha'Allah!
  

Guest - Kardes
2010-02-04 21:44:04
  Where is the sense of outrage by Turkey's government officials? Erdogan was married in Siirt! His wife is from Siirt! They have two daughters. Why does he not speak out against this barbaric, inhumane, muderous Islamic behavior? This family is like the Taliban - they have the greatest intellects............................................of the 14th century! Turkey should be ashamed. The police, the family, other memebers of this community ALL knew about this. How can Turkey expect to be recognized as a modern nation when its people do these things?
  

Guest - no sharia here
2010-02-04 21:31:19
  Just plain EVIL. www.islamrevealed.com
  

Guest - hartakogh
2010-02-04 20:50:53
  ...Say what! joining the European Union...? Turkey's still living in the dark ages.
  

Guest - Adnan
2010-02-04 20:17:05
  This issue should be included in the kurdish opening reform package. It is fair to say that in Turkey this is a Kurdish issue. It is one thing to protect the linguistic and cultural rights of kurds from an oppressive constitution but who will protect innocent Kurds from violent, abusive and patriarchal Kurds? This is the governments responsibility too. Let us not question why there are so many kurdish teenage girls in the PKK. The organisation, with its silly feminist ideology, offers them an escape from the domestic violence, forced marriage, and ultimately, honour killings of their families. But this clearly cannot be the answer. The government should attack this issue aggresively, which it has not done yet. Eventhough the number of womens refuges has gone up, there is still so much to do. All of this is interlinked. Regarding the PKK as an anti-turkish state movement is not enough, it is also an anti-Kurdish patriarchal/tribal culture movement. One must see the responsibilty of such crimes above in the general Kurdish issue and the creation of 'guerilla girls'.
  

Guest - Murat
2010-02-04 20:13:25
  Kahta is a city with the majority of the population is Kurdish. These kind of cruel acts are a reality of Kurdish culture and it has nothing to do with the Turkish people. When these sick people are punished by courts, it suddenly becomes a "Kurd" problem. These are the very same people who are "innocent, poor nation without a state" in the eyes of western nations.
  

Guest - ChrisLA
2010-02-04 19:30:08
  A new book about honor killing reveals that some part of Turkey have the highest rates of honor killing in the world. In Instanbul there is one honor killing a week. The book is "Murder in the Name of Honor" by Rana Husseini. A digest of the book can be found at: http://www.annaqed.com/en/content/show.aspx?aid=16277
  

Guest - Tom
2010-02-04 19:24:09
  When Muslim leaders condemn this, then it will stop. Why aren't they condemning this? Murder is the ultimate sin for just talking to boys. Why?
  

Guest - Mesut
2010-02-04 19:04:10
  J2, Barbarians?? You have forgotten about the paedophile Catholic priests abusing thousands of children for decades. And what about Israeli soldiers killing small Palestinian children in cold blood? But does that make all Catholics paedophiles and Israelis and Jews murderers or barbarians? Of course not. Hornblower, Incest is forbidden in Islam and in Turkish law as it is in every faith and law. Now that you mention it, what about the recent incest crimes in Austria, the UK and the US, whereby fathers were raping their daughters throughout their childhood and having children to their own children!! Both of you are racists with selective memories!! Honour killings is a problem in the south east of Turkey but instead of making racist comments, you should realise that every faith and nation has its good and bad.
  

Guest - 7 Hills
2010-02-04 18:47:35
  The good thing is.. this young lady must be in heaven.. the bad thing is.. the monster or monsters that killed her will probably walk free soon and who knows what else they will do to their own. They deserve the same thing done to them. Domestic violence, in any form is disgusting. When will women rise up against the ignorance and violence that keeps them living like possessions... like chickens, cats, dogs, cars, fish in an aquarium that can be flushed down the toilet by their owners.
  

Guest - AntiT
2010-02-04 18:38:09
  Horrific, no human right in Turkey. What a shame!!! Turkey could have been a great country but no one really gives a crap...
  

Guest - israeli
2010-02-04 18:10:04
  islam is an arab religion. the arabs invented it and it suits their nature. why does turkey feels so attached to it is a mystery to me.
  

Guest - CP
2010-02-04 18:09:32
  This is about penis anxiety. These men are inadequates, full of anger at their own ignorance and wracked with self-doubt. They bolster themselves back up by these power trips which is why they have to keep women down in as many ways as possible. I have not read the Koran but I would think there are parralell scriptures which relate to biblical wisdom such as "an eye for an eye" and "do as you would be done to". The punishment for these animals is a two metre hole, hands tied and the earth shovelling in. I would consider it an "honour" to be allowed to conduct the proceedings.
  

Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay
2010-02-04 18:03:22
  J2 go and get your facts right. Honour killings are occur around the world not just in Turkey. Honour Killings are even sanctioned in many Western courts. This is a gruesome killing and putting the blame on the PM is disgraceful. There are 75 million people in Turkey and countless young girls. Do you expect the PM to save every single kid? This is a law and order problem not a political problem that can be dealt by Sheikhs or Imams. The Imams do not have magical powers in which these gruesome murders will stop. J2 I suggest you get your facts right before you make a sweeping claim that honour killings occur in Turkey and Muslim countries.
  

Guest - A. Johannsson
2010-02-04 18:00:41
  This is sad and horrid act! What goes on in peoples mind who walk away frome the scene they have just burried one of their familymember alive or any human? Do they think that God or Allah is happy with their work or are the just plain scums that walks in their selfrightious ignorance in cloud of shame, Oh what an hounour! Can someone inform me what Turkish authorities are realy doing about this Hounor killing as it seems to me that every year couple of hunded of young women in Turkey share those same faith as MM. Every year!. Are there any official campains against it? Or do people in Turkey just look the other way and hide in the cloud of shame. Do they feel nice about it? J2 you came up with good criteria.
  

Guest - Fatih
2010-02-04 17:27:11
  Did it occur to anyone that kurds carried out the killing? When there is talk about democratic rights everyone steps up to support the kurdish speaking minority. When an honour killing occurs in the Southeast of Turkiye, everyone assumes it was the Turks who did it. How fair!
  

Guest - dr p
2010-02-04 17:21:55
  @j2: "How come there is no Islamic fatwa against such acts of brutal killings? Where are the local Imams and Sheikhs - busy whining about the lack of swiss minarets, conspiratorial jewish elders, and other trivialities to deflect the attention of distractable conspiracy theory freaks. @david s: don't hild your breath in your wait for justice for these perpetrators; just as perverse as the logic of honor killings is, even moreso is that used by judiciaries abusing the concept of extenuating circumstances.
  

Guest - Guest
2010-02-04 17:18:53
  Make no mistake about it, these were Kurds and this is their culture. Non-Kurdish citizens of Turkey do not have "Family Councils" because they don't live in the tribal tradition.
  

Guest - David. S
2010-02-04 16:55:04
  The whole concept of honour killings makes no sense at all. To defend one's family's honour one must carry out the least honourable action....that of cold blooded, and usually horrific, murder. Just to think of this poor girl as she saw the last of the world before being covered in dirt, and those last few minutes as she struggled for air knowing she was going to die, for talking to boys, makes me shake with rage. For a stranger to do such things is bad enough, for one's own family to do them....there are no words. Those who carry out such acts are no better than beasts in the fields, and deserve no better treatment.
  

Guest - Kaya
2010-02-04 16:22:45
  @hornblower - what on Earth? Wait, do you have this image in your head that Turks live in mud huts with Greek heads on display as decoration and Armenian blood for lunch? What is wrong with you people, are you barking mad? This act is a disgusting show of ignorant, fundamentalist aggression. But at the same time, Turkey is a well developed, well adjusted country and has European standards in its major cities and towns, in its economics and traditions. Dont dare make out we are barbarians.
  

Guest - J2
2010-02-04 16:02:24
  BARBARIANS!! How come there is no Islamic fatwa against such acts of brutal killings? Where are the local Imams and Sheikhs, why do they keep silent about this human rights issue, which occurs not only in Turkey but across the Muslim world. what kind of sick mentality is this that permits child-killing? it is revolting. Mr. Erdogan, what do you have to say about such slaughter committed by Muslims.
  

Guest - hornblower
2010-02-04 15:56:22
  This is a terrible tragedy. The horrible irony is that INCEST is a big problem in Turkey as well. Relatives can molest and violate young girls and boys but if those same girls talk to outside males they are beaten or put to death. Men of Turkey, INCEST is a sin. A terrible sin, Get your kicks somewhere else if you must. INCEST is the hidden hidden secret that no one talks about. No journalist, no politician. Maybe in Turkey it is not seen as wrong. God thinks otherwise.
  

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