OPINION
• MUSTAFA AKYOL
Thursday, July 29 2010 19:42 GMT+2
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Could Islam help us against honor killings?

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Mustafa AKYOL

Yet another horrible honor killing took place in the Southeast, the least developed part of Turkey. A 16-year-old girl was buried alive by her relatives simply for befriending boys. Forensic experts found soil in her lungs and stomach, indicating that the poor kid was conscious while being buried into the ground.

May God have mercy on her soul. And may her killers face punishment in this world and the next. What they did was cruel, monstrous and evil.

Yet denouncing evil is one thing, understanding where it comes from is another. The latter is necessary not just to satisfy our intellectual curiosity, but also to find a remedy with the right strategy.

Who is to blame?

Honor killings, unfortunately, are a widespread phenomenon in the Middle East, and people have diverse opinions on where exactly it has its roots. These disagreements were also reflected in the dozens of comments the Daily News Web site received Thursday. One commentator, who probably was a nationalist Turk, argued that the killers of the 16-year-old girl “were Kurds and this is their culture.” Another commentator soon responded by blaming the “Turkish government,” for it “kept the Kurds … in the dark ages.”

The truth is, yes, honor killings in Turkey are a problem mostly of the Kurdish population, for the latter is still under the influence of tribalism and all the related patriarchal codes. But this is neither an inherent characteristic of the Kurdish people, nor a conspiracy cooked up against them by the Turkish authorities.

The problem is the topography of historical Kurdistan. It is a very mountainous region, which is inhospitable to trade routes, railways and highways. Hence its inhabitants have lived almost isolated from the outside world for centuries and have remained largely untouched by modernity. The same is also true for the ill-famed “tribal areas” of Pakistan, which is, again, very mountainous.

Another issue about honor killings that came out in the comments to the Daily News, and which I want to focus on, was their link to Islam — or the lack thereof. A commentator was quite certain on this. “The problem [is] not the Muslims,” he (or she) wrote. “The problem is Islam.”

Well, I beg to differ. I rather think that honor killings exist because not just modernity but also Islam could not penetrate enough into the patriarchal cultures of the Middle East.

Let me explain. Of course, Islam, like other Abrahamic religions, has laws and punishments about sexual morality. The Koran, for example, criminalizes adultery, and thus Islamic law, or the shariah, has developed a system of regulating how it will be penalized. I personally have reformist views on this (for example I am totally against stoning, which is a part of the classical shariah) but that is another matter. What matters here is that honor killings go against even the most conservative interpretations of the shariah.

Why? Well, because while the Koran defines adultery as a crime, it holds both the female and the male equally responsible for it. But have you ever seen a man killed for “honor?” I haven’t. What I have rather seen is that while women are being killed, beaten or at least humiliated for extra-marital relationships, men are often congratulated by their male friends for their “virility.”

In the face of this hypocritical male-domination, the Koran actually tried to protect women by penalizing false accusations of adultery brought against them. Unless there were “four eye witnesses” who saw the actual intercourse, no women could be accused of adultery, and those who spread rumors about her would be flogged.

So, if the shariah were applied to the situation of the 16-year-old girl who was buried alive by her relatives, it was the latter who should have been punished for bringing false accusations of adultery.

An academic who has studied honor killings, Dr. Kecia Ali, agrees that Islam is not to blame here. In her report for The Feminist Sexual Ethics Project she notes that while “some have viewed honor killings as a logical extension of traditional Islamic gender practices,” others have “argued that honor killings are the antithesis of Islamic morality.” And she finds the latter view as “essentially correct from the perspective of Koran, prophetic traditions and Islamic legal thought.”

Religion versus tradition

Dr. Stefanie Eileen Nanes, another academic who studied honor killings in Jordan, agrees. “In fact, this practice predates Islam,” she notes, “and young men who commit these murders have been quoted as saying that in these cases, despite what Islam says, tradition is stronger than religion.”

What this means is that religion can be helpful in the much-needed campaign against honor killings. To its credit, the Turkish Religious Affairs Directorate (the “Diyanet”) has noted this and its imams have given sermons throughout Turkey denouncing the horrific practice. But much more is needed.

Throughout the Middle East, Islamic scholars and other opinion makers should focus on this problem, and make strong, not half-hearted, denunciations of honor killings.

And if they don’t find themselves willing to do that, they should question whether they are, too, under the influence of the patriarchal codes of male-domination, rather than the Islamic norms of justice.


 

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READER COMMENTS

Guest - Mozam
2010-07-02 23:03:18
  Honour killing is not Islamic at all, it is vehemently opposed by many scholars. It's a cultural practice and I think people might do this in the name of Islam because they think that it is up to them individually, to assert 'their law and punishment' especially if the country they are living in opposes it. They might be thinking that their countryfolk/leaders are not Islamic in the first place, I feel Islam gives a sense of superiority to men (what about women..who are different but equal to men). The right to decide the law/punishment should remain with judges who are normally learned and wise.
 

Guest - Yalin Dusunce
2010-02-17 11:02:13
  Could you please define more specifically to which academic facts and documents are you using to prove your so called "historical kurdistan region"s existence? How dare you name a part of our country like that? Are you a seperatist or an ignorant?
 

Guest - zeynep
2010-02-14 14:29:29
  Islam could definitly help stop honour killings. It is a tribal attitued which I believe inherited from pre islamic Arabia or whatever.. What you see is that in communities where honour killing is high, they give more value to the religion than the republic laws but yet they don't themselves know the moral teachings of Islam either which mandates to protect rights and responsibilites of each living creature. One of them is being the right to life, means that your body as an individual or any one of your bodies as a group is safe from harm. The second is honour, which is the right not to be defamed and libelled in public. How many muslims know their religion, I mean almost no one knows anyting except the ritiuals for warship. My fellow countrymen should also go through transformation by learning what they religion demands from them on the grounds of life and the rights of mankind.
 

Guest - Sami
2010-02-11 10:51:23
  Well Zonkey, thats a try but way far, and I think you are intelligent enough to know that it's not that easy, especially in Arabic, its much more complicated. You should know a little bit more about the Qura'an to see how challenging this would be. Its not a moral book or a story. I've been trying to explain that this kind of crimes is not related to Islam or any religion, only ignorant people do such crimes, you can research Arabic and Islamic sources and see what they say about this type of crimes. Frankly im extremely happy that I'm talking to all of you especially that in Islam there is nothing to hide, we don't have any hidden or shameful beliefs, we say what we believe and every one can find it in our books. There are many incidents that gave a bad idea about Islam, but no one can stereotype and generalize about this religion. Unfortunately the countries that are having this type of crimes, don't have an Islamic regime, where not the Islamic rules are applied. And you can find the punishment of adultery very clear in the Qura'an which will be applied in Islamic regimes, which is not killing or stoning. you can find it easily. Thanks again for this debate. Regards,
 

Guest - dr p
2010-02-10 15:54:11
  @mr doganay, sami, etc: regardless of your particular interpretations of the koran, hadiths, etc, the imams and other leaders educated in islam orders of magnitude above you have been deafeningly silent in both their islamic nations and expatriate communities about honour killings. if such were so contrary to the letter and spirit of islam, why did the hojas and kadis not weigh in centuries ago and end the practice? i ask this honestly, rather than posing it as an accusation. perhaps the problem is less islam per se than its penchant for hagiocracy, in which leaders need fear no accountability and can substitute power for the forbidden alcohol as their drug of choice? this was certainly true in europe - the caesaropapist west and erastian east - and broken only by secularisation. the geographical canard is sheer foolishness, as is the when-in-doubt-dump-on-the-kurds ploy.
 

Guest - Zonkey
2010-02-10 15:37:33
  @Sami - Thanks for taking the time out to write to me. I think you have challenged me to write something equivalent to a Surah. Well, I don't speak Arabic, but if your challenge to me is to write something that has some moral value and is easier perhaps to understand and more pertinent to our times than the Qu'ran, I certainly will try .......... Here goes : ''There is nothing honourable about murdering women because they are not sufficiently servile enough to protect us (men) from having to deal with our own sexual jealousy and over inflated masculine ego''. How's that ?
 

Guest - Sami
2010-02-10 08:23:37
  Dear AaVee. What do you consider the guy that slept with his daughter and got seven children from her, lately they discovered many people like this. Do we look at this guy's religion, for sure not. What about parents who sexually abuse there children, please don't tell me that you didn't hear about them. Do we look about their religion, sure not because these people have mental problems and you can find them every where. Please don't try to stick this to Islam, honor crimes in the middle east, in Jordan for example, are committed also by Christians, so this is a social issue not religious. The problem is when religion doesn't over come the effect of social pressure as I believe that the concept of Honor for example is totally different from Europe in general.
 

Guest - Z.B
2010-02-10 00:23:50
  No such thing as Honor Killing.Islam is based upon verses. People make mistake using hypothesis assumption or concession made for the sake of argument or interpretation .Consequently, out of this world Verses came in 23 years amid whisperer (anti-christ) trap trial tribulation despite using Hadith and Tafsir. These are fine detailing in design and drawing with extreme sophistication.This comes with live back up out of this world.Dr Iqbal was a Brahamin widely accepted for his ideology on Pakistan Muslims God.He said:“Excel yourself such that God speaks to you ”(this verses of his correlates one in Quran ).Islam does not permit any man made current act (implied as Islamic).There is Voodoo effect(sihr) magic effect sickness and constant Misleaders around. Consequently Some of the Muslim recites specific few Quran liners daily . Religion is purity of faith. What is pure is pure impure is impure and what is in between is impure. With this almost 100% of us Commit an act considered as impure. This is where the problem is in the World. It is not Islam Christianity Judaism Hinduism Buddhism or any other known religion in practice. The concept of religion Post religion and medieval religion has to change. Even I (under the circumstance) back Islam. But I should be teaching Religion of God for the benefit of God but others simply would not permit.
 

Guest - Sami
2010-02-08 20:28:14
  SENBEN its clear that you didn't read what I wrote, anyhow I can't force you, and no one in the world can force you to understand, so goodluck and I hope one day you will read more and know more about others, not only muslims. Regards
 

Guest - AaVee
2010-02-08 19:48:39
  SenBen: exactly as you said, religious people, including Muslims, Christians and Jews always integrate their religion into the lifestyles they want to have and find the "best" for themselves and their families. In other words, they make religions "fit" anything they like. This is the CORE problem here. I repeat myself, but I don't care: The murderer father and his own father belonged to a Islamic religious sect and I'm 100% sure that they found at least something from their religion to support their cruel act. Anyone can correct me if they think I'm wrong. If this was the case, Islam is a part of the problem here, because at least these two inhumane "pious" Muslim men murdered the poor girl and most probably even went to the mosque for normal Friday prayers afterwards. Which is incredibly SICK, if they did. Again, I do not claim that these 2 men interpreted Islam in the right way -I believe they did NOT. I believe they confused the tradition and their own perspectives with religion. Neverthless, these events keep on happening in Muslim countries on regular basis - women being the victims, which means that the politicans, community leaders and imams MUST take serious action and condemn these people. Otherwise we all have right to believe that the politicans, community leaders and imams try to understand and partly accept these events. May God bless this is not the case.
 

Guest - SenBen
2010-02-08 18:27:22
  @sami, there are other steams which say that this poor girl was 9 years old. How do you call someone who marries a 9 year old girl? You people change the facts till that point it matches how you like it. Leve me allone with your propaganda.
 

Guest - SenBen
2010-02-08 18:24:44
  @Semi, i am honest, i am not interested 1 second about any explanations over farytales / islam. i am happy that germany is a post religion society,. the only problem here are those muslims with their medieval attitudes. You can call me islamophobe, its a pleasure to have this nick for me.
 

Guest - AaVee
2010-02-08 17:45:23
  Sami: the Turkish translation of Quran is full of mistakes and even the religious directorate in Turkey has recently called for a "more accurate translation". According to one other translation than the Turkish one, the Prophet "fulfilled his marriage with Aisha" when she was 9 years old - whatever it means. Open to your interpretation, which version is correct. But I agree that marriages of very young girls were common that time in the region and Muhammed did no exception and he cannot be accused for that. Anyway, back to modern times: you see Islam as a religion of peace and tolerance and I can agree with you while reading the book. However, when you see Islam as a core of equality, you would have to explain several things: why are women in Muslim countries all over the world in the most inequal positions and under the control of male relatives? This is reported by all women's NGOs, lawyers, university reports in Turkey as well (Turkish data, no foreign conspiracy this time). According to Shariah, are women members of the Shariah court, which decides for punishments over crimes? In how many Muslim families women make decisions over men and decide freely how they dress and behave? How many men in extreme Muslim societies are stoned to death, because of a "proven adultery"? How come that for the adultery of women there seem to be enough (4) witnesses in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Nigeria etc. and some of them are stoned to death - every year? Please, don't feed me the nonsense that European/Western women are in poorer situation compared to Muslim housewives, because they get highly educated and "have to work" outside home. Please define what you mean by "equality". For me it means complete freedom of choice for education, work, dressing and lifestyle for adult members of society, without any fear of sanctions issued by other members of the society. In how many Muslim countries these freedoms take place? You know according to many researches average Muslim women from different countries report that they lack of freedom and are under the control of male relatives and members of society. Don't they understand the "great equality" that they have in their pre-defined (by men) roles as housewives and mother's little helpers who clean, cook and take care of children when their husbands work, watch TV or hang lazily out with their friends playing some backgammon? Why should women let's say in Turkey accept this lifestyle? To be "good Muslims"?
 

Guest - Sami
2010-02-08 14:42:52
  @zonkey, Islam is not a religion related to history or outdated, and the Qura'an is not and encyclopedia that you can update because its already ahead of our life. The Qura'an is the miracle of Mohammad (PBUH), he didn't wake up the dead of did anything unusual, Allah challenged people at that time, who where known about their Culture and poetry, to make one Soora the same as the Qura'an, and the challenge still standing till our days, if you can get one soora like the Qura'an go ahead, you would demolish all the Islam religion, and so if you are not convinced, take some time and know about Qura'an and for sure you will know about its secrets and you will get attached to it. And about the rights of women, first believer in Mohammad (PBUH) was his wife Khadija, if you would go into the deep details in the history of Islam, the role of women was huge, and there are many stories if you have time I can tell you about them. By the way, The number of times the words "MAN" and "WOMAN" are repeated in the Qur'an, 24, equally. And trust me, there are no coincidence here.
 

Guest - Sami
2010-02-08 14:26:42
  @SenBen. It seems that you are very interested to know about marriage age in Islam even though you consider Islam as the root of the problems, I will not do any effort to prove the opposite since you are only throwing words and not giving any proofs, but I will try to give you some details about the marriage of Mohammad (PBUH) to Aisha. First of all, for every Marriage of Mohamad (PBUH) there was an Islamic aim behind it. Where most of the marraiges of Mohammad (PBUH) when he was more than 55 years old. When Mohammad (PBUH) married Aisha, she was 14 years old, as per many historic studies, and I can refer you to one if you want, and by the way she was engaged to someone else before Mohammad (PBUH). Additional information to you, is that they didn't live there complete marital life until she was 18 years old, and this is not to prove anything to you because the marriage of young girls in that society was considered normal. Additional information to you is that Aisha was engaged before Mohammad(PBUH) to some one else, so was getting married anyways because she was mature enough. As for the aims behind this marriage, first of all we should mention that she was the duaghter of Abu Baker, or in Turkish Ebu Bekir, the first Caliphate, and he was the closest person to Mohammad (PBUH), and to have a family relation between them, he married the daughter of Abu Bakir. So this is the first goal. As for the life of Aisha, since she was very young when she married Mohammad(PBUH) she was able to memorize more and more about the life of our prophet (PBUH), and she was able to narrate more than 2,000 Hadiths, so mainly muslims learned a lot about the daily life of Mohammad (PBUH) from Aisha. Maybe I wrote to much, and I appreciate that I took from your time to read this. Please take more time to know about Islam, and then fight it if you want but with reason, not only words, and if you need any explanation look around you and you will find it. Thank you again.
 

Guest - SenBen
2010-02-08 10:20:05
  @Humanity, dont expect from Mr Akyol anything objectiv in this case. His pro islamic position is clear for everyone here on HDN. --- Islam is not a solution, islam is the root of problems. Again my question, are marriages with 12 year old girls allowed through the Koran? Mr Akyol, enlight us. And plz explain us the marriage of the prophet with a 9 year old girl. Is this tradition or religion?
 

Guest - peter
2010-02-07 19:46:14
  Given that no religion advocates or justifies killing the question is why do religious and political leaders do not make that clear to people? Why do we have armies ready to kill and be killed and go to paradise? Why we do not declare religions that advocate killing fake and wrong?
 

Guest - ara
2010-02-07 19:46:10
  If you can't love your women, daughters and wives, how can you enter the civilized world? Turkey is still living in the dark ages. Maybe it's better that way though, since a civilized Turk will can not be a real Turk. After "all" that Kemal Mustafa tried, we see that nothing has changed. A wolf remains a wolf even if it's in sheep's clothing.
 

Guest - Zonkey
2010-02-07 19:04:08
  A comment below makes a valid but quite tired point that Islam improved women's rights 1,400 years ago in Arabia. I'm quite sure that this is true but we really can not use this as a serious argument when talking about the treatment of women in the 21st century. The failure to accept the Qu'ran for what it actually is, and instead to ascribe to it a divine status that shields it from any sort of criticism, helps misogyny continue unabated.
 

Guest - SenBen
2010-02-07 18:35:55
  stoning is a nogo Mr Akyol, so far you reformed yourself, what are with the other hundret darg age sharia punishments like beheadings and amputations? enlighten us about your law visions for turkey. and plz explain us the 9 year old girl and muhammed. this special marriages are very common in muslim societies, help us Mr Akyol.
 

Guest - Mr Goksel Doganay
2010-02-07 17:55:10
  Honours killings are very abhorrent but terming them honour killings is inappropriate, it should be termed domestic violence. Domestic violence is a worldwide problem not just a Turkish, Kurdish or Islamic one. Domestic violence can only be combated in line with local customs. Applying Western standards to non-Western standards will resolve any issue. The wife of the Turkish PM cannot be a spokesperson for domestic violence victims. The Turkish people elect politicians not their wives or husbands, any claims to the contrary ignorant SenBen is unacceptable. Domestic violence is a police matter and police must be trained in order to deal with these modern day types of problems.
 

Guest - HUMANITY
2010-02-07 16:48:53
  İt isn't '' HONOUR KİLLİNGS' !İt isn't the problem of ''kurdish population''. İt is just PRESSURE on BOTH WOMEN and MEN in all POPULATON OF TURKİYE for menaging them with violence coming from religious organisations ! İn this case there is no reason for traditional ''honour killing'' !Because a 16-year-old girl (MEDİNE)wasn't has any boy friend! She only complain her grandfather to Police for beating her mother and treathing her with gun. FATHER AND GRAND FATHER ARE MEMBER OF MENZİL called religious organisation . This organisation have not only kurdish members but also Turkish members as you know Mustafa Akyol.
 

Guest - Sami
2010-02-07 14:41:23
  Well I cant understand whether you want to defend Islam or just be against it without knowing the religion. If any muslim kills someone then all muslims are terrorists and criminals. Any how this is not the point, but I would really appreciate it if you can go and look in the history books and see what Islam gave to women, how they treated women before and after Islam, and then lets discuss how Islam changed the mentality of most of the region. Before Islam for example they used to bury the girls when they are born. Islam changed this and even made people who did this feel guilty after getting into Islam. So please do some research ans then start offending Islam or any other religion, but for sure you will not find any religion or law on this earth that gave women what gave to men and gave her all her rights. And about stoning Mr Aykol, I would like to tell you that Islam is a full package deal, you can't chose and pick, and please don't contradict yourself, when a women and a man committed adultery they both deserve the punishment, the same punishment, I guess this would be fair for both when four people saw them doing this, so its not that simple to stone someone. Thank you for thinking that Islam can help, and sure it helped, but please don't relate people who do mistakes to their religion, they are wrong not the religion.
 

Guest - Sharkcity
2010-02-07 14:31:29
  Weak minded people believe and act on religious nonsense be it Moslem, Christian, Jew, etc. The killer is a disgusting excuse- an inhuman. Hopefully brutally tortured for the rest of his life
 

Guest - hornblower
2010-02-07 14:27:23
  When women are seen as property and not as people created in the image of God then honor killings will continue just as abortions continue in Turkey, the US and around the world. God said clearly "DO NOT MURDER" Talk about honor, GOD'S honor is assaulted and insulted when a mere man kills his creation to 'save' face. I guess people can keep saying that Islam is not responsible for suicide bombings, honor killings, incest, child marriages. But if these things are coming from those who practice Islam then there can certqainly be argued that there is some link. Either Islam is the cause or Islam is not doing it's job or the Hoccas who teach (since no one actuially reads the Koran) are clueless about what is right or wrong. When a truck runs over a person very few people would blame the truck and not the driver. Such is not the case with those who say Islam has nothing to do with these atrocities.
 

Guest - peterc
2010-02-07 14:16:47
  You say "I personally have reformist views on this (for example I am totally against stoning, which is a part of the classical shariah) but that is another matter." Are you congratulating yourself for this?
 

Guest - pg
2010-02-07 12:57:21
  A couple of points. It may help if the word honor is removed from the entire discussion. A family that will bury a 16-year-old girl alive has no honor to lose and therefore none to regain. The practice, of course, has nothing to do with Islam and it could help prevent a further extension of Islamophobia if Muslims were to point this out to the rest of the world much more forcibly than is being done at present.
 

Guest - scepticalyabanci
2010-02-07 11:41:50
  Honour killings are not an Islamic problem in the same way that the Spanish Inquisition was not a Christian problem, and if it just a Kurdish problem, as one nationalist fool claims in another comment, howcome honour killings take place in all Islamic cultures and in expatriate Islamic communities in non-Islamic countries? It is time to stop the sophistry and address the problem directly and honestly. Islam positions women are second class citizens, the property of the fathers, brothers and husbands, etc. It also insists that they cover themselves in public. This discloses the absurd belief that in some way public morality is dependent on female modesty and on protecting men from the provocation of seeing women...as if men have no power of self-control and as if the mere sight of a woman's hair will incite a man to uncontroallable lust! How many steps is it from this antiquated sexist nonsense to the point where you bury your daughter alive for 'talking to boys'? This type of sexism should have no place in the modern world.
 

Guest - Zouk
2010-02-07 09:40:25
  Almost in all traditional societies, severe forms of discrimination are prevalent. Among the Hindus of India, thousands of female fetus are forcibly aborted every year. Thus girls' population in some parts of India is lower than that of the boys. The "honor killing" in many Islamic countries are related to culture and tradition, not the religion. So, the "honor killing" cannot be eliminated by laws alone. The journalists, media, politicians, etc. must constantly educate the uneducated people of the country that Islam and laws do not permit the "honor killing." Further, the judges must punish the culprits of "honor killing" severely.
 

Guest - Halil Basaran
2010-02-07 08:51:28
  Surveys in Turkey show that the 'chastity of women', scores very high in the definition of honour. Cleansing honour (namus temizlemek) is dealing with womenfolk who have stepped out of line as regards their sexual behaviour. Unfortunately, it will take many, many years before we can penetrate this 'disease' through education. Meanwhile the death toll will continue to rise.
 

Guest - Guest
2010-02-07 05:54:03
  Well, let's see... Islam hasn't helped eliminate "honor" killings during the past 1400 years, so the answer to your question appears to be NO.
 

Guest - Papken
2010-02-07 05:34:05
  "The problem is the topography of historical Kurdistan. It is a very mountainous region, which is inhospitable to trade routes, railways and highways." Do you yourself believe these delusions? The area was once very prosperous. Once upon a time there were Armenians in the area. It was their homeland and they were very prosperous. One of their capital cities was so prosperous, Ani, that at its peak it was considered second only to Constantinople. All of this in the hostile topography of the region. And then the Turks came. And the region hasn't been the same ever since. Racist? Maybe. True? Definitely.
 

Guest - Dara
2010-02-07 04:28:21
  Feudalism is the fertile base to encourage honorkillins in Islamic society .Islam is a good spiritual tool amongst undeveloped people to be shaped with there cultures and used to patronize there families….
 

Guest - Baloch
2010-02-06 21:54:08
  I agree that this is not Islam that force people in crimes like honour killing.However I disagree author's comments on stoning.Stoning is just a deterrant like an atomic bomb.If we implement Shariah in its true meaning all crimes will decrease including sexual crimes. Who will do a sexual crime when four people witness his/her actual intercourse?So I belive we should accept and praise Islam in all its teachings and commandments.
 

Guest - Ekrad
2010-02-06 20:54:35
  Its a Kurdish problem not a muslim one, unfortunately woman have hardly any rights according to Kurdish traditions and tribal laws. A few people gave example of mountain men of the Alps not doing the same. This is not a general problem for everyone living in mountains however, its also not a problem to do with religion. The Toureg woman are muslim and have a higher social status than their men. Traditionally Turkish woman have had a high social status, even today hardly any Turkic groups practice polygamy and woman have been active in society. They have been leaders, rulers, warriors, the first woman's organisation 'Baciyan-i Rum' and so on. Different groups have different values, its cultural not religious.
 

Guest - SenBen
2010-02-06 20:25:22
  We dont need the islam to fight against this unbelievable & horrible honor killings. We need a strong police with strong laws. We arnt in Saudi Arabia where the sharia and the Koran are the laws. Maybe Mr Akyol will understand this also sooner or later. Ms Emine Erdogan, where are your statements to this cruel criminal act? I thought that you fight for women rights +irony off+
 

Guest - AaVee
2010-02-06 19:00:47
  Wise and educated words from Orhan below. I could add that that people believing in any religion tend to do so, because it's the human nature - looking for acceptance by the "others" around us. Religion is not enough for us to live together with other people, we also need cultural "rules", values, moral and ethics. These have existed before the foundation of any religion and the religions never replaced the cultural aspects, but became part of those. It's a self-delusion to claim there are religions, which are understood and interpreted in the same way by all their followers. It's a huge mistake to think for example that a Muslim Turk is the "same" in his/her faith than a Muslim Somali. Both might belive in the same essence like the one and only God, but practically all behavior and decisions in life are heavily subject to cultural interpretations. There are even huge differences within countries and communities. One of the interesting example in Turkey could be a "Kemalist Muslim" who is a pious believer in Islam and at the same time promotes the Kemalist thought as the major pillar of the society. I know personally many many such people. Actually I believe that there is nothing wrong as such in combining different life perspectives - everyone does so anyway whatever they claim. This sometimes leads to interesting events. I attended once a funeral of a famous Turkish person together with a hardline Kemalist (leftist professor). When most men went inside the mosque to pray, he told me: "Look, now those believers go inside the mosque to pray, but we can stay outside in the yard". But when the prayer started, the "hardliner" joined the prayer by praying himself in the yard of the mosque. He even told me what movements I should do to pray like a Muslim:) So what's the difference? For him it obviously was that he did not enter the mosque - even though he prayed like everyone else there.
 

Guest - hornblower
2010-02-06 16:56:30
  Bravo the author has REFORMIST views.... he's against stoning. My, this a breathtaking and courageous stance to take. Imagine, when it comes to Shariah ISLAMIC law one has to take the position of REFORMIST to be against stoning. If someone in the west proudly took the position of 'I'm against stoning' folks would wonder if he'd been drinking or fallen in a time warp from the 1600's. If Turkey would open the Incil -- written 600 years before the Koran they would come face to face with a prophet/messiah who proclaimed: Love your enemies because even sinners love those who love them. The one who has never sinner cast the first stone. Pray for those who persecute you. Forgive whoever sins against you over and over, unconditionally. If a man looks at a woman with lust, he has committed adultery with her in his heart. I guess I am frustrated with Turks when they don't read the Koran and those who do admit they can't understand it (thus the extensive commentaries) but then defend it and call it superior to other Holy Books which they haven't read either but which reveal God's will clearly (see above). Ignorance built on ignorance. Don't you want more!? Alas Judgment Day will come like a thief in the night and so many will scramble to find the words of the Messiah but it will be too late.
 

Guest - Ernie D.
2010-02-06 16:52:41
  A very interesting read. It's a relief to read that the author has reformist views on stoning. What kind of punishment for a teenage girl does he approve of? Burning alive? Throwing acid at her? Cutting her throat? Is it about Islamic attitude toward morality or just power over women? A direct government intervention would seem to be the first step, like in France which makes efforts to give Moslem women their human dignity. As long as women are family (male) property, "honor killings" will be the norm of the day.
 

Guest - Murat
2010-02-06 16:52:03
  Educate? You mean get the Kurds give up their tribal and primitive ways? Isn't that called assimilation? What would EU say about it? By the way where are those people who are so concerned about that ape in a cage in Imrali, you know if he is eating and breathing rigtht and all. All those concerned with their Kurdish cultural freedoms and th tyranny of the state etc. Not a word now. How fitting.
 

Guest - gerard scargo
2010-02-06 15:47:22
  Honor killing stems from the deeply imbedded fear of men that their offspring might not be theirs. Only a women who bears a child knows that the child is hers but the the poor father is is only hoping that his wife has been faithful to him. In these times the man will resort the to the thing they can do best and that is to use force, hit or kill. Especially in tribal cultures it will be the only way for a guy to ensure his "bloodline" while it is the blood of the mother which goes thru the veins of her child.
 

Guest - AaVee
2010-02-06 14:50:14
  Dear Mustafa, you are correct about the view that these horrific low acts as such do not derive from Quran or other religious sources. However, the example you give by Dr. Nanes referring to young Jordanese men saying "tradition is stronger than religion" should be a point of closer focus here. First of all, I do not think these murderers are completely able to separate their acts from their religious beliefs. In fact I believe many of them see the women's position as defined in Quran i.e. "weaker than men in their belief", "in need of men's guidance and protection" and "under the necessary authority/custody of males in the family". If they do, this alone connects these acts to religion whether you like it or not. The worst is that they may see their own honor to depend on the "decency" of women in their family. This "decency" has very strong roots in how the religion defines it. Neverthless, the point is that they do see that they have right to decide on how women in their family should behave, dress and present themselves - and to punish them if they don't do it in the way "men in the family see correct". Further, many horrific acts are accompanied by religious slogans such as "Allah is great", which shows that at least some of these ignorant people are de facto connecting their acts to religion in a way or another, partly because they do not understand the most important concepts of their own religion - or because they interpret it in the way that suits them best in different occasions (which is similar to what most religious people in the Christian world do as well). In addition, it's nonsense to think that any religion is "objective" in a way all followers understand it. By claiming so you would dare to claim that for example education or social status would make no difference in how people understand their religion. But in reality there are only multiple subjective ways of understanding what is part of teh religion and what is not. The non-Islamic traditon of circumscribing women in Egypt and southern African Muslim countries is an example of this: it's a tradition that has longer roots than any Abrahamic religion does - but still people see it necessary for women's decency "in the name of God".
 

Guest - hpg
2010-02-06 13:59:40
  Of course, Islam may help. Yet, only with insight and determination, as the problem is more complex. Leyla wrote that the most pious would be the killers. Yes, when piety is a synonym of self-righteousness. Education is a keyword here. The cultivation of insight and compassion. May be a religious, more generally spoken an issue of literature and philosophy. It must be spoken about illiteracy, the suppressed development of Kurdish literature ... --best, hpg
 

Guest - David. S
2010-02-06 13:59:25
  An unfortunate fact is that although not linked to Islam in faith, honour killings are for the most part linked to Muslim communities. Attributing such horrors to people living in cut-off communities, or to lack of education ignores the examples that happen in western societies too, within Muslim communities. I realise this might be an unpleasant truth, but it's a truth nonetheless. It should also be noted that Muslim families are patriarchal, regardless of what is written in the Koran about women's rights.
 

Guest - Orhan Ertuğruloğlu
2010-02-06 10:46:34
  There is a Pashtun saying: It could be translated to English as “ We accept only the half of Kor’an.” This is valid nearly for all the muslim countries in the world. And Turkey is not an exeception to this rule. All the muslim communities substantiated their Islamic theories with the cultural values of their own ethnic group.So the author is right. Honor kiliings have nothing to do with religion. Only education can help us to fight against honor killings.
 

Guest - Leila
2010-02-06 09:48:21
  Well surprisingly it will be the most pious persons who will carry these acts, Honor killings has been for long said its not related to Islam. As if committing crimes and murders is considered pardonable ????
 

Guest - Blue
2010-02-06 09:48:04
  I don't often agree with Mr. Akyol, but this time he is spot on. Honor killings represent a parallel cultural attitude to Islam, not a Islamic specific attitude. It most probably predates Islam, and is probably related to the culture of revenge that has long existed in this area as well, and also predates Islam. It is unfortunate though that Muslim religious leaders tend to provide weak leadership in denouncing this barbarism. Needless to say, they have grown up with it, and can't recognize its foreignness to Islamic faith.
 

Guest - David
2010-02-06 07:43:05
  Mustafa, you are beginning to change my perception of you. This article is a good start.
 

Guest - Viggo
2010-02-06 07:22:08
  Mr Akyol says honor killings have noting to do with religion. But we can see the same underlying logic in the ways (some and extreme) muslims view women. For example that women should be humble and not encourage contact with men by covering themselves (to a various degree). It is certainly impossible to fully separate tradition/culture from religion, but what we can see is at least that both of them seem to point in the direction that women should be modest, should not be too lively in the presence of men, should not be seen as free individual (but as possesions). We can also assume that out in rural areas, the Imams have a great deal of influence, maybe more than the representative of the state, so if they can stop this or at least clearly condemn it, it might be a good start to stop this madnes.
 

Guest - ava
2010-02-06 03:19:31
  It is so painful to hear about this case . How this child must have suffered. And the western world shakes it head and says this is Islam , and Turkey says this uneducate Kurds . but really this is men's attitude to women and it is to one extreme or another from murder to attitude . I come from Ireland and I am a women in my fifties. Equal rights for women is very recent in Ireland . Before this it is ok for a man to beat a woman . before this it is ok to say if you are not as pure as the Virgin Mary you are not good enough . And who is as good , so women are not treated by men as human beings with all the failings of men , they must be perfect or you should kill them . or reject them or shame then . but it's alright for men to be human and have failings. This week in Ireland a man murdered his wife , the jury decides he has extenuating reasons , he gets 5 years in prison and when he comes out , he will have the house his wife works for and the money she earned . where is justice for women When will men see them as equal no matter what religon or country .
 

Guest - joke
2010-02-06 03:15:02
  ok. i agree with you. but there is omittance. -you have to discuss failure of muslims in educating its adherents in higher standards. -also apply same standards to seculars. dont blame secularism for failure of seculars educating its adherents in higher standards. and note that this shows the commonground between islamists and seculars and that they should cooperate not fight
 

Guest - Zonkey
2010-02-06 03:10:09
  Mustafa, what reformist views you have ! Against stoning ? What ? People shouldn't be buried up to their waist and have their heads caved in by rocks ? Next you'll be telling us that we evolved from apes !! I'm sorry but I think that there must be better ways today of combatting this backward form of tribalism other than by pushing a different form of backward tribalism.
 

Guest - Srusht Salih
2010-02-06 02:58:26
  Nope!
 

Guest - YABANCHıSTANBUL
2010-02-06 01:53:05
  Dear Mustafa, God is not speaking to us for more than 2000 years. What has the Qu'ran to say about that. A book which lacks spirituality, history, common sense..exactly..it's like Kemalism.
 

Guest - Sylvia
2010-02-06 00:57:26
  Mr. Akyol, first of all let me tell you how relieved I am that you are against stoning! However, you seem to be vey much detached, very cold in view of this horrendous crime. Ok, then it is not due to religeous convictions, but of tradition. Ok also, that these people are Kurds and not Turks, I understand as well that these people live in mountainous regions-but so do a lot of Europeans too, in the Alps,the Pyrenees, etc. -but nothing and I repeat nothing remotely similar happens there. Those people live in territory which belongs toTurkey I gather-then where is your Government??? Why is Mr. Erdogan, or rather Ms. Erdogan, or any other high representative of the Government not there to make the local people understand what horror they perpetrated? Why are government representatives not there always to connect those people to the changed ways of living nowadays?
 

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